80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 07:24 am
@blatham,
Thanks, now those are issues which have real every day consequence in the average American life. Unlike some of these recent discussions. One thing you have to give Sander's credit for, he doesn't sink as low as some of his supporters. Just thinking about general kind of gives me the feeling Sanders might be the better the choice just to avoid those low down discussion. But he would have to pick someone with a more strong foreign affairs background.
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 07:38 am
@revelette2,
Yes, I like the guy a lot (but the consideration of foreign affairs knowledge/experience and what I deem to be likely electoral consequences along with some other factors I've mentioned before) put my support behind Hillary. Like Warren, Sanders is shifting the conversation and will surely continue to do so from wherever he sits.

I think, though, that the "low down discussions" would not be measurably decreased if he were the candidate. One constant we can observe about movement conservatism is that it needs enemies and existential threats. It needs to see evil outside and inside the nations in order to perceive and define itself as the opposite. It is a deep pathology.
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 08:30 am
John Fund has a column today at NRO. He has a perch there along with his perch at the WSJ and other right wing media outlets. If you aren't familiar with the fellow, he's a functioning propagandist in the "upper" reaches of right wing media land. That's his gig. He also has a related sideline (along with Hans Von Spakovsky) as a key proponent of the "Voter Fraud!" meme justifying gutting voter roles of millions who are likely to vote for the other party. Sleazy dude.

He writes on how bad it will end up being for Hillary to have Bill campaigning with her. And gosh, who expected right wing pundits to say that? But I want to quote his last sentence which I find quite delicious given Mr Trump...

Quote:
And both of then have shown through their past misbehavior that they carry with them a substantial danger that they will bring the exact opposite of dignity and honor to the Oval Office.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 11:59 am
@blatham,
Look at how many will 'buy' that garbage. People who support Trump are just to ignorant to comprehend how dangerous he really is.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 12:06 pm
@blatham,
I know they need an enemy, but it would be harder to demonize Sanders as he does not have anything that I know of they can really use. His message is popular so using a social label I am not sure would be so successful and as far as I know he has no record for sleeping around and has not been hounded to death for twenty years for political reasons the way Bill Clinton has. For this reason alone, I am hoping Sanders gets picked just to avoid talking of oral sex in the oval office all over again. Like I said though, he needs to pick someone with a lot more tougher views on foreign affairs and security issues than he has. (The only reason really I picked Hillary over Sanders in the first place.)
georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 12:42 pm
@revelette2,
Are you suggesting that things are going so well under the current administration that the political opposition "needs an enemy" ? I find that a bit laughable.

The political stability of the Middle east is unravelling. Our economic growth is grinding to a halt under a regime of excessive and often mindless regulation. Political and strategic rivalries around the world are growing fast. This is hardly a dish that either an ageing and corrupt political phoney like Hillary, nor a worn out believer in 20th century socialism are able to digest. (Bernie is not a serious candidate, but I have included him only to appease you.)

Please continue your dissection of the presumed need for the political opposition to find reasons to doubt or dislike your only political icon, and the evident flaws in their own candidates.. They can find abundant reasons for change without your help or analysis, and the election next year may well offer a few surprises..
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 12:56 pm
@revelette2,
Fair enough argument.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 01:10 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote Georgeob:
Quote:
Our economic growth is grinding to a halt under a regime of excessive and often mindless regulation.

When President Obama first took office, the country had LOST 6 Million Full Time jobs the previous year. Now the country has GAINED 2.5 Million Full Time jobs in the last 12 months alone, and 5 Million Full Time jobs the past two years.

You have to stop listening to only the conservative media, it's throwing you off.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Full%20time%20jobs%20Nov%202015_zpskg4mehxr.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 01:34 pm
@Blickers,
Poor george has preconceived ideas that will never go away. It's easy to find out facts on the internet on almost all subjects that has to do with our economy, employment/unemployment in the US.
What makes the US economy more significant is the simple fact is that the world economy has been stagnant. That's saying something.
According to BLS, unemployment dropped from 7% in November 2013 to 5% in November 2015.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 01:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Unfortunately BLS data does not measure the econoimic output of the country. Apparently for the truly stupid any number will do.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 01:45 pm
@georgeob1,
The truly stupid still hasn't learned how to find it.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 02:02 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote georgeob1:
Quote:
Unfortunately BLS data does not measure the econoimic output of the country.

Perhaps not, but the importance to the populace of expanding economic output is that it results in more jobs, especially Full Time jobs. Increasing Full Time jobs and economic output that is "grinding to a halt" are not two conditions that generally go together.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 02:04 pm
http://www.focus-economics.com/countries/united-states

Quote:
Steady gains in the labor market, including another positive jobs report in November, have made headlines, although there are still concerns about participation rates, underemployment, and wage growth. Consumer spending has remained fairly robust throughout the year,



a couple of breakdowns from the front page

http://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/united-states/gdp

http://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/united-states/industry

Quote:
Revised data show that the U.S. economy expanded at a seasonally adjusted annualized rate of 2.1% in Q3. While stronger than the advance estimate of 1.5%, the result was weaker than the 3.9% increase tallied in Q2. Growth for the full year should be the strongest since the post-crisis rebound seen in 2010
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 04:13 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The political stability of the Middle east is unravelling.

I think that claim is accurate though I'm fairly confident you would place the blame for this cascading ugliness on the administration that's been in place over the last seven years. Thanks, Obama.
Quote:
Political and strategic rivalries around the world are growing fast.


Fast? Not sure how you measure that one. But it does correspond with the common proclamations of Dire Existential Threats On The Near Horizon! thing I alluded to earlier. And as to "rivalries", that's new? That's abnormal? That's not to be entirely expected and, indeed, reasonable? Noconservative ideology (which we are so thankful for) holds that such emerging phenomena must be crushed because it is the US which uniquely ought to be running the show would be on your apparent side here.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 04:20 pm
@blatham,
It's easy to blame Obama for all the ills of this world, but that would be a stretch of great imagination.
1. Evidence is required
2. The US is not the world police
3. Americans are tired of getting involved in wars
4. We have many problems at home that needs attention
5. Who is going to raise taxes
6. We don't have good options on candidates for president
7. I'm going hunting for Obama's approval rating
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 04:39 pm
Stop the presses. Huffpost reports Hillary has vowed to release all information about UFOs, if she gets elected. Maybe send a task force to area 51. Wink
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 04:58 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Hillary has vowed to release all information about UFOs, if she gets elected.

Sure, she has. But only because those documents, going back to the early 50s, show numerous photographs (grainy, to be sure) of an un-aging Ted Cruz wearing the same lab coat.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 05:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The omission of serious reflection upon the prior eight years (re the middle east's present chaos or regarding the economy) is a commonplace on the right. Not all are guilty, certainly, but for many this convenient blindness holds sway.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  5  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 05:03 pm
Anyone who has been paying attention will know that Islamic State is an organization started by Iraqi refugees who flooded into Syria. For example, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Islamic State, was interned in Iraq in 2004. Defense Department records show that he was released in December, 2004. (There are claims that he was not released until 2010; however, that looks a good deal like "retro-engineering" of the historical record by those who want to blame Obama--the official record is that he was released in 2004.) He then took over Al Qaeda in Iraq, and it was renamed the Islamic State in Iraq. He was there until 2012 or 2013, depending on whose version one accepts. It is certain that he, as the leader of ISI, took over radical jihadi rebel groups in Syria, in a bloody internal war. Not long after that, in 2014, ISIS invaded Iraq. They drove on Ramadi, but finding resistance unexpectedly tough, they left a holding force, and advanced on Tikrit. They took Tidrit, and slaughtered more than 4000 people, most of them prisoners who had surrendered in the brief siege of Tikrit. Al Baghdadi had lead a large force of ISIS troops on Tikrit, and was joined by a large group of former Ba'athist party loyalists. That was in late June, 2014, and it was at that time that i personally realized that ISIS was an Iraqi Sunni organization. Saddam Hussein''s full name was Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti, and most of his closest supporters, advisers and military officers were also Tikriti tribesmen, with the locational name al-Tikriti. I commented on this in these fora in the summer of 2014.

Attempting to blame any of that on Obama is nothing but pig-headed partisan hostility. The 2003 invasion of Iraq and the more or less quick defeat of Sunni insurgents is the origin of ISIS. The following is from the forced migration review:

Quote:
Since spring 2003 the region has seen a massive migratory movement from Iraq into its neighbouring countries. Syria is the primary destination of refugees due to the historical relations between the two countries, and because the regulations in force do not require them to obtain an entrance visa.

Syria has offered Iraqi refugees care and assistance, and continues to do so, in spite of the limited nature of its material resources. At the start of 2007 UNHCR estimated that the number of Iraqi refugees in Syria exceeded 1.2 million, a huge influx to a country with a population of 18 million. This heavy number of arrivals has had an extreme effect on all facets of life in Syria, particularly on the services which the state offers to citizens. There has been a sharp increase in the cost of living and the unexpected weight of numbers has had dramatic impacts on the infrastructure and the economy.

(Snip . . . )

Iraqi refugees constitute a numerically enormous mass of humanity in comparison to the number of the inhabitants of the region. Certain agencies estimate that the number of refugees in states neighboring Iraq is greater than the total number of refugees in all the countries of the European Union. Syria’s economy and infrastructure are buckling under the great weight of the burden. The relief and aid which Syria has offered to Iraqi refugees in its territory over the past two years (2005-06) alone has amounted to $162 million. In light of the continuing rise in incoming Iraqi refugee numbers, it is estimated that the cost of humanitarian, health and education support for Iraqi refugees over the next two years will exceed $256 million.


Source--a PDF document

Keep in mind that the United Nations High Commission for Refugees made its estimate of the number of Iraqi refugees and the cost to Syria at the beginning of 2007, before anyone even knew that Mr. Obama would be a candidate for the presidency.

In many respects, although the split between Sunni and Shi'ite dates back to the seventh century, there was never a major upheaval and war as their was when Protestant and Catholic split in the 16th century. But we may be witnessing that now. ISIS are Sunni extremists, and have received a good deal of material support from Saudi Arabia. More disturbing than these military stumblebums in ISIS is the serious break which is even now developing between Saudi Arabia--the wealthiest and most influential Sunni nation--and Iran, the most populous, wealthiest and most influential Shi'ite nation, which is happening just now.

Blaming any of this on Mr. Obama is stark, staring idiocy. If any blame attaches, it would be to the completely unnecessary 2003 invasion of Iraq. Even that was only a trigger event, as the existence of Al Qaeda and the rise of Sunni fundamentalist radicalism probably guaranteed such an event sooner or later. The invasion of Iraq, if anything, can only be blamed for making it sooner rather than later.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  6  
Mon 4 Jan, 2016 05:12 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Unfortunately BLS data does not measure the econoimic output of the country. Apparently for the truly stupid any number will do.

In that case, why not look up the relevant number and see whether it supports CI's case or yours? A quick Google search will bring you to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, which will inform you about the history of America's real per-capita GDP in 2009 dollars. In Q1 2009, G.W. Bush's last, it was $46,941 per year, and contracting at a rate of 4% over the year before. In Q3 2015, the latest quarter for which they have data today, the figure was $51,006 and growing at a rate of 1.4% over the year before. Based on your own metric of choice, then, Obama is presiding over an economy that's imperfect, but still far better than the one his predecessor left him. Are you seriously still rooting for the party of his predecessor?

Of course you're not, you're too realistic and intelligent for that, now that the right kind of data is on the table. I'm glad I could turn you into a Democrat so easily, and bide you a happy new year! Smile
 

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