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Five Reasons No Progressive Should Support Hillary Clinton

 
 
Kolyo
 
  5  
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2015 11:31 pm
@ehBeth,
I've been ignoring the thread and didn't see this question.

ehBeth wrote:

what would actual liberal-minded voters do if the choices were a liberal Republican or a right-of-centre Democrat ?


Ultimately, there are other factors besides overall ideology. You have to look at all the issues that interest you and go issue by issue. For example, if RINO Sheila Bair ran against Hillary Clinton, the fact that Bair fought alongside Elizabeth Warren during the banking crisis (for more regulation, in an effort to stop banks from speculating in the future) would be a factor in my decision. I might well vote for Bair.

However, it's important to me that we eventually elect a woman president. A female president would inspire other women to run for Senate seats. The 20 women already in the previous Senate played a pivotal role in averting a debt ceiling default and I see no reason not to expect even more from them if their number climbs from 20. So I would pick Hillary over Huntsman for that reason. Electing a woman isn't the only factor--I would never vote for Sarah Palin--but it is a factor.
Kolyo
 
  4  
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2015 11:38 pm
People dissing Huntsman for being a Republican should remember that Utah is a one-party state, so he really had no choice.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 06:42 pm
@Kolyo,
Quote:
A female president would inspire other women to run for Senate seats.

So by that token if we elect a christian minister it would inspire other ministers to run for congress so that we dont have any more corrupt politicians?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:19 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Quote:
A female president would inspire other women to run for Senate seats.

So by that token if we elect a christian minister it would inspire other ministers to run for congress so that we dont have any more corrupt politicians?
if women need to be inspired to lead then they should stay home and bake cookies. Good men are driven to lead, and I would rather be lead by those who most want to lead me. Dedication counts. And victims make poor leaders. I reject the argument that we should make poor choices based upon our politics. I further submit that if our politics inspire us to make poor choices then are politics are at odds with reality, and should be changed immediately.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:21 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

People dissing Huntsman for being a Republican should remember that Utah is a one-party state, so he really had no choice.
he could have moved. If Hillary could run for a NY seat then we know it is easy.

As per usual your argument fails on 30 seconds of consideration of the facts.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Good men are driven to lead, and I would rather be lead by those who most want to lead me.


So Ms Clinton is pretty much your perfect candidate.

_____

not my criteria, not my choice - but it makes sense for you
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:40 pm
@Kolyo,
Fair enough.

Voting for a woman because she's a woman wouldn't work for me, but I can understand that some people would take that into account.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:42 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
So Ms Clinton is pretty much your perfect candidate.
her drive is fine. Her competence is not. Her being a very old broad who has never before now shown much interest in leading is not. Her being a bitch is not. Her being a liar is not. Her being out of touch is not. Sum it all up and I get NO!
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 07:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
She's always wanted to lead. Being a bitch is irrelevant, whether or not it's true (I don't know her personally and don't trust tabloids). She's far too old for my taste but so are most American presidential candidates. Competence? yeah, she's done well in her jobs to date if you look at them from outside of the US rightwing media core.

You can still hate her but you need to look at your criteria - and be honest about then - since her desire to lead - which you identified as an important factor - is there and has been for decades.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 10:13 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
She's always wanted to lead.


and I have always wanted to be a submarine captain. I got no closer to a sub than Hillary has gotten to leadership.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 02:35 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
She's always wanted to lead.


and I have always wanted to be a submarine captain. I got no closer to a sub than Hillary has gotten to leadership.


Hillary rattles you, Hawk. She's got a lot more in the way of balls than you have...and I think that intimidates you. If she wanted to be a submarine captain...she would have gotten on a sub.
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 05:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Hillary rattles you, Hawk.


I do not believe it's just Hillary who unnerves Hawkeye, but all strong females. His posts are a put-down on women as if once upon a time something terribly personal involving the opposite sex occurred and he's unable to escape the memory. Hillary Clinton has a strong forceful character and will make a formidable candidate;* she would in all likelihood make mincemeat out of her male counterpart. I sincerely believe if GWB had not had such a disastrous two-term administration with over 4,500 US military killed in Iraq, Barack Obama would not have won over Hillary Clinton. I believe the thought of a female president of the US frightens the hell out of a few chauvinistic men and Hawkeye just might be one of them.
______
*Ted Cruz might be "widely popular in Texas" but that's most likely as far as that male animal will go. Pity he's so thoroughly disesteem outside of Texas that chances of his getting the GOP nomination seems too far remote. I would love dearly to see Hillary cut him down to size the same way United States Senator Dianne Feinstein did.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 05:29 am
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
I sincerely believe if GWB had not had such a disastrous two-term administration with over 4,500 US military killed in Iraq, Barack Obama would not have won over Hillary Clinton. I believe the thought of a female president of the US frightens the hell out of a few chauvinistic men and Hawkeye just might be one of them.


Wasn't their respective voting records on the illegal invasion of Iraq equally as important? Obama made the right call while Clinton voted with Bush.
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 05:49 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:

what would actual liberal-minded voters do if the choices were a liberal Republican or a right-of-centre Democrat?


I, too, did not see your question. I am the one who mentioned Jon Huntsman of Utah. He served in the Obama first term as US Ambassador to China. He dropped out before his term was over in order to run for president of the US against President Obama. He, I must admit, was never critical of Obama the way a couple who left had done. He was the one Republican candidate the Obama administration was somewhat jittery about, fearing he had the most chance of defeating the incumbent. I, too, feared the man; I did not want anyone to take Obama down. The right-wing Republicans never considered him, and he consistently polled low, but was by far the most articulate and intelligent; the GOP viewed him as a RINO and having been too close to the Obama administration. At any rate the current makeup of the Republican Party leans too far right and today would never consider anyone remotely as liberal as Jon Huntsman.

As to your question would a Democrat side with a Liberal Republican over a right-of-center Democrat, the answer is I just don't know. It would depend on the personality of the progressive Republican and the issues. I, personally could not say unless faced with said situation. I must add my bias against Republicans' extremism regarding social issues, military and foreign affairs tend to color my perception of them, often leaving me feeling miserably unhappy. The Liberal Republican would have to be truly someone set apart before I would even begin to consider voting for him/her.
korkamann
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 10:42 am
Personally, I believe if Jon Huntsman were to change parties from Republican to Democrat, he is the one person who could defeat Hillary. The man's intelligence is above average; he speaks fluent Chinese and several other languages....he is most articulate with an agreeable and pleasing personality. Huntsman is well travelled, and knowledgeable; his family was with him when he was an Ambassador to China. He appears to be humane and touchable.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 10:49 am
@korkamann,
thanks for the response

the current state of American politics, with both main parties being right-of-centre is a real curiosity to me

korkamann wrote:

Quote:

what would actual liberal-minded voters do if the choices were a liberal Republican or a right-of-centre Democrat?


As to your question would a Democrat side with a Liberal Republican over a right-of-center Democrat, the answer is I just don't know. It would depend on the personality of the progressive Republican and the issues.


would the personality of the right-of-centre Democrat also be a factor?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 11:00 am
I might vote for Huntsman if I thought the democrats had a chance of taking congress.
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 11:58 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:

would the personality of the right-of-centre Democrat also be a factor?


We're getting into the hypotheticals here. Individualistically, I would have to actually have respect for the right-of-centre Democrat on the most important issues. Even at times I may appear hostile to Republicans, my views are not necessarily carved in stone. One would vote for the lesser of the two evils.

During this particular political atmosphere, the Republicans are showing their darkest side based on religious and racial ideology, their powerful protestation to the social changes going on around them, the lack of respect for the commander-in-chief, their willingness to be bought to undermine their own government for a foreign one. I am so frustrated at the dirty politics being played that I swear there is no way I could bring myself to vote Republican today, regardless how liberal they say they are....I would suspect a trick!

I realize my post seems contradictory.....
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 12:15 pm
@korkamann,
Thank you. Your post reads like someone who's frustrated with the options out there.

I know I'd have trouble voting in the US. I haven't seen a candidate from one of the two main parties who hasn't made me twitch for many years. A few of the non-mainstream candidates have seemed like maybes but many others have seemed like straight-out loons. Voting for a third-party candidate seems to have its own set of problems/dangers.

I wonder what I'd do if I had the limited options (IMNSHO) available to an American voter. Would I have become active in a movement for a third party? would I just stop voting? would I toss a coin?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 01:52 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
I wonder what I'd do if I had the limited options (IMNSHO) available to an American voter. Would I have become active in a movement for a third party? would I just stop voting? would I toss a coin?

I've been asking that myself. If and when I become an American citizen, I will likely vote Green in any election that's solidly Democratic or solidly Republican. (New Jersey is solidly Democratic in presidential elections.) In any election that's competitive between a Republican and a Democrat, I will likely vote for the Democrat, even if I have to hold my nose as I do it.
 

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