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Five Reasons No Progressive Should Support Hillary Clinton

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 02:11 pm
@Thomas,
I have voted Green, but not in the biggest election situations. Things can get so close, sometimes quite fast.

I think this one in 2016 will be a nose holder for me.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 05:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If she (Hillary) wanted to be a submarine captain...she would have gotten on a sub.


Oh she goes down...but not in a sub!
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 05:59 pm
@giujohn,
8 years in the Senate with very little to show for it. 4 years as sec state and we dont know of anything much she did in the positive direction as the global security situation deteriorated. before that she was an unpopular and ineffective first lady in the White house and a Governor's mansion..

And she is enough of a knuckle head to think that she can run on her experience as a leader.......
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 06:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
You forgot to mention she looks terrible in a dress!

Hell, I dont think even Bill would vote for her.
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 07:54 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
korkamann wrote:
I sincerely believe if GWB had not had such a disastrous two-term administration with over 4,500 US military killed in Iraq, Barack Obama would not have won over Hillary Clinton. I believe the thought of a female president of the US frightens the hell out of a few chauvinistic men and Hawkeye just might be one of them.


Quote:

Wasn't their respective voting records on the illegal invasion of Iraq equally as important? Obama made the right call while Clinton voted with Bush.


Not necessarily so, Izzy. The Bush/Cheney masterminded and carried out the war, while Hillary merely gave one vote out of many. GWB was already in office when 9/11 occurred. Later he decided to ask for a vote on invading Iraq. Whether Hillary Clinton voted to invade Iraq or not would not have prevented GWB/Neocons from their goal of attacking Iraq. One might say Hillary was a casualty of the war because it went so badly, all those who voted to invade Iraq was blamed. Clinton's vote did not control the war in Iraq which was a disaster. The GWB administration was the worse in American history or so it's been speculated. Only history will determine the validity of this. In my humble opinion and many others, it was this disastrous war which caused so many Americans to think outside the box and vote overwhelmingly for someone new and different; Barack Obama filled this bill. The American people became most angry at the Bush administration, the loss of so many US lives, wounded men and women, that they blamed everyone who voted to go to war in Iraq.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 08:07 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
The American people became most angry at the Bush administration, the loss of so many US lives, wounded men and women, that they blamed everyone who had told us that this fools errand was a good idea


fixed
korkamann
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 08:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye wrote:
Quote:
The American people became most angry at the Bush administration, the loss of so many US lives, wounded men and women, that they blamed everyone who had told us that this fools errand was a good idea.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 09:03 pm
Over the weekend I took some time to look at Clinton's statements and her voting record. Ontheissues.org has a comprehensive collection online, and so does. votesmart.org.

Having read the first source and skimmed the second, I am coming away with a cautiously optimistic view of Hillary Clinton. Sure, she's imperfect. In particular, I wish she had taken stronger stands in favor of privacy rights and civil liberties. But I don't think she deserves the vilification and contempt she is getting from Republicans, and from some in the Democratic party's liberal wing. My own personal tally now stands at about 80% agreement, 20% respectful disagreement. And in politics, 80% agreement is enough for me. As the political philosopher Mick Jagger so perceptively observed, "you can't always get what you want."
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 09:22 pm
@korkamann,
Why couldn't people have simply liked Obama over Hillary? I have heard every excuse in the world as to why Obama was elected. He was elected twice, maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with him. I know it did and still does for me.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2015 09:54 pm
@Thomas,
I agree. No other viable candidate at this point is close to her.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 03:41 am
@edgarblythe,
I agree with Thomas on this also, Edgar.

There will be no perfect candidate...all will be flawed. If the Republicans really think the Dems are putting up exceptionally flawed candidates... they ought stop with all the pissing and moaning about the Dem candidates...and get some sane people running on their side.

It is not the exceptional quality of the candidates of the Dems that finally persuade me to vote in that direction...it is the pathetic quality of the Republican candidates that finally get me over that line. (And the fact that I will not waste a vote on a third party candidate at this point.)

All that being said...Hillary has lots of very positive appeal for me and for my advocacy for a progressive agenda.
rifter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 11:29 am
@korkamann,
Quote:
while Hillary merely gave one vote out of many.


Merely? Is that how she looks at things? A war is "merely". You aren't helping her one bit.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 01:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Hillary has lots of very positive appeal for me and for my advocacy for a progressive agenda.

Actually during two terms as a senator she was pretty quiet, she did not advocate for much of anything, and talking is not doing. At her age we should be judging her by her accomplishments not by how closely she can modulate her words to what we want to hear. But what are her accomplishments?

Being a hawk when the hawks have had their way and the global security situation has unraveled is a part of this....she appears to be on the wrong side. I am not prepared to say the projecting our power globally is wrong, but I am prepared to say that we have done it poorly. Making Hillary President would in all likelihood continue the record of failure. It is time for a change, and Hillary is not it no matter how changed the scripts are that she reads on stage.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 01:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
I would suggest that you not vote for Hillary, Hawk.

I do thank you, however, for the good you are doing for her image with your postings here in A2K.

She...or any Dem, for that matter...will do much, much, much more to protect and expand the programs that I think should be protected and expanded.

If she is on the ballot...I certainly will vote for her.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 01:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If she is on the ballot...I certainly will vote for her.

You do seem like the kind of guy who makes up his mind early and sticks with it come hell or high water, making excuses for your closed mind as you go. You might however have the decency to at least wait to see what the choices are.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 01:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
If she is on the ballot...I certainly will vote for her.

You do seem like the kind of guy who makes up his mind early and sticks with it come hell or high water, making excuses for your closed mind as you go. You might however have the decency to at least wait to see what the choices are.


IF she is on the ballot...I will vote for her.

I've had several years to think about it...her possible candidacy only comes as a surprise to someone who has had his head stuck up some very dark place.

In any case, once again I want to thank you for helping the way you are.
rifter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 02:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
IF she is on the ballot...I will vote for her.


If? She would have to dead not to be. If that happens you can still write her in.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 02:52 pm
@korkamann,
None of that changes what I said. On the Iraq vote she made the wrong call, Obama made the right one. We've got an election going on now, and none of our party leaders voted for it, mostly because they weren't in office at the time, but that doesn't stop it being a liability though.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 03:00 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
On the Iraq vote she made the wrong call


And more recently Libya. And Ukraine has to be largely her fault, they would not have gone up against Putin without thinking that we had their back, that message had to have been sent over a period of years.
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2015 03:03 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:

Why couldn't people have simply liked Obama over Hillary? I have heard every excuse in the world as to why Obama was elected. He was elected twice, maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with him. I know it did and still does for me.


I am sure the majority preferred Obama over Hillary but not initially, if simply because they did not know anyone of another race. Of course, a black man can be just as competent or incompetent at the US presidency as any white man, but America had never experienced anyone but a white man as president of the US and believed the seat of the US presidency was reserved exclusively for the white man! Also, you must remember, the idea of a black president of the US seemed decades away, when America's white majority has diminished while the brown majority is on its way to becoming the majority in the United States of America.

America needed an emotional and cognitive wake-up call, in not so many words, to be willing to think past accepted concepts and perspectives, to strive for the different. They needed to believe someone else might be able to do the job just as well or even better. The impact of the disastrous war in the middle east by the incompetent Bush actors shook America up, so badly, that they wanted a change; they decided to do something completely different, elect someone contradistinctive, a highly educated young black man by the name of Barack Obama.

By now, Rev, you should have observed Obama's merciless critics, the obstructions at every turn by the pernicious right-wing Republicans; John Boehner going to Isreal to conspire with the Israeli government's PM on how to undermine Obama's talks with Iran and our 5 allies. There have been all kinds of mockeries made of a ridiculous unsatisfactory kind against President Obama and his wife, Michelle. This is the backlash of anger stemming from racist, punitive, vindictive minds, simply because as an American Barack Obama dared to dream and actually grasp the goal he was seeking.
 

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