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@MyFellowAtheists: How Big an Atheist Are You?

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 01:52 pm
Calling it an ideology to be atheist is total ****. Nothing you say can make that so. And I am not going to get into that "guess" bullshit again.
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 01:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'd prefer to call it an absence of ideology. Even more accurately, it's an absence of dogma.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 01:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Calling it an ideology to be atheist is total ****. Nothing you say can make that so.


I have never done that, Edgar.

Why are you in such an uncontrolled rage?

Why won't you discuss this reasonably

[quote] And I am not going to get into that "guess" bullshit again.[/quote]

You were the one who raised...asking about me wiping my ass!

Why. Are. You. In. Such. An. Uncontrolled. Rage?



.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 01:57 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

I'd prefer to call it an absence of ideology. Even more accurately, it's an absence of dogma.


Are you saying that an atheist who asserts, "There are no gods"...is evidencing an absence of ideology?

Really?

And are you actually saying that someone who asserts there are no gods...is not speaking dogmatically?
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times...never exaggerate.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Really. Without dragging this discussion into a further tedium...more semantics , the absence of an ideology is not necessarily an ideology.

Quote:
And are you actually saying that someone who asserts there are no gods...is not speaking dogmatically?

I can best answer that by relating this definition...at least, as far providing a working definition ... for the sake of this discussion:

"Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true."

The atheists with whom I'm familiar, do NOT declare themselves as authorities...and do NOT declare what is true for others.
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Why do people you disagree with so often accuse you of rage? If I had rage I would give away my computer and do all my writing in spiral notebooks. You say that if I say there are no gods it is an ideology and then deny making the claim. Which is it?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:16 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

Really. Without dragging this discussion into a further tedium...more semantics , the absence of an ideology is not necessarily an ideology.

Quote:
And are you actually saying that someone who asserts there are no gods...is not speaking dogmatically?

I can best answer that by relating this definition...at least, as far providing a working definition ... for the sake of this discussion:

"Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true."

The atheists with whom I'm familiar, do NOT declare themselves as authorities...and do NOT declare what is true for others.


Ragman...

...SOMEONE WHO ASSERT THERE ARE NO GODS...

...is making a dogmatic statement about what does not exist in REALITY.

I am not talking about the atheists with whom you are familiar.

I am talking about the atheists who assert there are no gods.

Why do I have to keep repeating that? Why can't the people here understand that?
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Take an aspirin and get some rest, frank. I suggest you stay out of atheist discussions.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Why do people you disagree with so often accuse you of rage?


I don't think I've ever been accused of it, Edgar...so I cannot answer your question.


Quote:
If I had rage I would give away my computer and do all my writing in spiral notebooks.


Well...it sounds as though you are in a rage...but if you are telling me that you are not, because you have not given away your computer...I accept that completely.


Quote:
You say that if I say there are no gods it is an ideology and then deny making the claim.


You are distorting, Edgar.

If you say there are no gods...IT MOST ASSUREDLY is an ideological comment.


I have never denied that.

Read what I actually wrote.

For the record, you said, "Calling it an ideology to be atheist is total ****"...and I denied ever saying that. The reason I denied it is because I never did say that.


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Take an aspirin and get some rest, frank. I suggest you stay out of atheist discussions.


Nothing wrong with me, Edgar. I am being totally logical here.

You do not like hearing the truth on this issue.

And I most assurely will not stay out of atheist discussions. They are among the most entertaining discussions in this forum.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:33 pm
You have this Paul-fought-with-an-angel-complex that makes you proselytize like a religious fanatic with a sandwich sign on a busy street corner. As I said before, you try to bully those who disagree with you. There is no ideology when there is nothing and that is my final take on it. Carry on with other posters if you wish, but for the time being I am done with you.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 02:39 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

You have this Paul-fought-with-an-angel-complex that makes you proselytize like a religious fanatic with a sandwich sign on a busy street corner. As I said before, you try to bully those who disagree with you. There is no ideology when there is nothing and that is my final take on it. Carry on with other posters if you wish, but for the time being I am done with you.


You are the one doing the bullying, Edgar. I am the one trying to have a reasonable discussion.

You seem unable to control yourself long enough to have a reasonable discussion.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 03:33 pm
Part of the confusion lies in the negative connotations carried by the word 'ideology', linked to dogma. I don't use the term is this way, think of it as a system of political thought. I have one: it's called social-democracy, although my personal version is heavily tweaked... And yes, it includes its fair share of anticlericalism, although i don't paint slogans on churches at night or anything like that... :-)

(Once read, airbrushed on the facade of a small church in Rome: "MENO CHIESE PIÙ CASE !" Can't say i disagree with that, but I swear I didn't do it.)
ossobuco
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 03:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Stop shouting, it isn't seemly.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 03:51 pm
@Olivier5,
Bottom line, Olivier...

...anyone who makes an assertion in a debate or conversation...

...incurs the onus to prove that assertion.

If someone asserts "there is a GOD" (REALITY contains a GOD)...a burden of proof accrues.

Is someone asserts "there are no gods" (REALITY does not contain gods)...a burden of proof accrues.

Personally I suspect the former cannot be proved (but if there is a GOD, there is no telling.)

I cannot think of any possible way the latter can be proved.

But to suggest that the latter does not have to be proved...that it simply has to be accepted...or that it is exempt from the rule that assertion bear a burden of proof...makes no sense.

Neither should be asserted.

One way out of that is to express it as a "belief"...essentially a guess that a GOD exists or that no gods exist.

Atheists seem to have lots of trouble doing that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 03:52 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Stop shouting, it isn't seemly.


Stop lecturing. It isn't seemly.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 03:58 pm
@Olivier5,
Do you remember which church? you are talking with a Rome fanatic.

I agree with that financially, for sure, don't get me going, but also have seen the place synagogues, mosques, churches, other gathering spots of belief systems, have to do with community (or bullying people, that can vary, anger can enter my mind on that), including pride of place.

An odd thing now - not so sorry, everyone, to twist the discussion a bit - is that the renowned most liberal city in the U.S., a city I liked from first day there with a friend and our mothers, San Francisco, has an activist archbishop that is almost a cartoon to watch.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 04:19 pm
@ossobuco,
Fanatic is a bit strong. A Rome interested person.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 04:32 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Part of the confusion lies in the negative connotations carried by the word 'ideology', linked to dogma. I don't use the term is this way, think of it as a system of political thought. I have one: it's called social-democracy, although my personal version is heavily tweaked... And yes, it includes its fair share of anticlericalism, although i don't paint slogans on churches at night or anything like that... :-)

(Once read, airbrushed on the facade of a small church in Rome: "MENO CHIESE PIÙ CASE !" Can't say i disagree with that, but I swear I didn't do it.)

I have a political ideology. No question there. It rests somewhat left of Roosevelt's New Deal. But it doesn't push for religion or atheist ideas, just pushes back when the right to them is encroached.
 

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