3
   

Idiot Protestors Snarl Traffic_Ambulance diverted

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2015 12:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

chai2 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:


They may not have thought out all the ramifications of their actions....



Which is what makes them idiots.


No, Chai, it does not. It identifies them as humans.

Obviously you are someone who has never done anything that had unintended negative consequences. Because you are so perfect, you have the right to consider them to be inferior to you.


Wow I missed alot here -

Yes it does make them idiots that is the whole defination of an idiot someone who doesn't think out the ramifications - especially very obvious ones like blocking a major highway entering a city where emergency vehicles regularly travel.

Do you know what aspect of being human vs simply an animal -- being able to reason and think things through. These "humans"did not reason or think thus making them idiots.

From dictionary.com

idiot

[id-ee-uh t]

noun
1.
Informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person:
"If you think you can wear that outfit to a job interview and get hired, you're an idiot!"

I think if someone dresses incorrectly to an interview is considered an idiot -- someone that does something as foolish as blocking a major highway should be a super idiot.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 05:11 pm
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/17/report-boston-youth-worker-fired-for-role-in-milton-protest/

BOSTON (CBS) – A Boston city youth worker was among the 11 protesters arrested this week for her part in blocking traffic on Interstate 93 in Milton.
That employee lost her job as a result.

Nelli Routsalainen, 25, served as a part-time employee for the city for about two months, according to a statement from Mayor Marty Walsh’s office.
She was a Youth Communications Specialist for the Department of Youth Engagement and Employment

https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/nelli.jpg?w=420&h=237








more at link
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 05:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Going back to earlier posts and reading anew, I think I disagree with that.
Boyle's book works it, the thinking. I could throw quotes but the book gives context for the protagonist's thinking.

It happens to be sitting while I read other stuff, as it's no fun so far.
Dystopian, a fairly new word to me.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 05:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I pick this one to answer as I am not clear the ambulance block was unintended consequence. See my recent posts.

Also to be clear, Boyle is not all for this, it's part of a story.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 08:01 pm
Whether or not the demonstrators can be described as "idiots" is really an irrelevant semantic question. The point is that they made a serious mistake in their choice of demonstrative method and, as a result, did their cause no good at all. There is virtually nobody defending their actions (except Frank, of course Smile) and the voices of condemnation are loud and clear everywhere you look on the Web. If the freedom riders and sit- inners of the 1960s had received that kind of negative publicity, the civil rights movement would have come to a screeching halt.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 08:27 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Whether or not the demonstrators can be described as "idiots" is really an irrelevant semantic question.


Thank you.

The acts were idiotic, the people were idiotic.....all semantics.

Point is, this protest was worse than useless, it was harmful. It produced nothing positive.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 08:30 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
If the freedom riders and sit- inners of the 1960s had received that kind of negative publicity


they certainly did
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 08:39 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:
If the freedom riders and sit- inners of the 1960s had received that kind of negative publicity


they certainly did


No, not universal like that. There was a great deal of sympathy for them, their cause and their non-violent methods of operation. I remember it well. I was in a few "freedom marches" myself.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 08:48 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
I remember what people said about them/you

not a lot of kind words spoken in my hometown about people who supported civil rights in the early-mid 1960's. the locals didn't approve of the marchers and sit-inners. they sounded very much like linkat and chai in their posts in this thread about the idiots and what they were trying to do.

this thread reads like going back 50 years in small town/small city Canada
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 09:54 pm
@ehBeth,
As a general rule, that wasn't true in the Northeast U.S. In New tYork, in Boston, in Philadelphia newspaper editorials were generally sympathetic. In the South, the biggest mistake the racists made was in resorting to violence to break up some of the marches/protests. Generally speaking, the news media -- especially print media -- were on the side of the demonstrators. When still photos and videos of Southern cops turning fire hoses on peaceful marchers were made public, public outrage was all on the side of the demonstrators and against the local law-enforcement organizations.

That's hardly the case here.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 10:38 pm
What Frank misses is a basic understanding of the exercise of ones rights. Rights are NOT absolute and stop being a right when they interfere with the rights of others.
When you exercise your right and it poses a danger to others the action is a CRIME. Anyone who purposely does so is an IDIOT. (FELONY STUPID) It would be no different then exercising your 1st amendment rights by yelling fire in a crowed, dark theater. To say that these people did not know that their actions would endanger the public is to be disingenous and if they didnt know it would be dangerous, is prima facie evidence that they ARE idiots.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 11:13 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:
If the freedom riders and sit- inners of the 1960s had received that kind of negative publicity


they certainly did


This is completely different - no one supports this (other than the idiot protesters and a few others) - even the black community which supposedly these idiots are supporting. In many interviews on TV news you see the black community speaking out against this protest and are concerned this sort of protest will turn people away from supporting black lives matter.

Also more than just the ambulances were impacted -- people going for chemo treatments, doctors trying to get to hospitals to work and other black individuals trying to get to work and as a result lost money -- those that they claim they are trying to help -- they hurt.

Great article talking about this.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/01/18/need-for-change-but-protesters-not-helping/SlQiwWaWF5oudzUNXK3OWI/story.html
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 11:18 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lumping this idiotic protest to the purposeful protests of the 1960 is a grave insult to the freedom marches.

Blocking traffic on an interstate has one purpose and one effect. Their sole aim is to inconvenience people... random people who have nothing to do with the "injustice" they are protesting.

The freedom riders purpose was to ride a bus with equality. The lunch counter demonstrations were exercising rights. None of these protests were designed with the goal of hurting people who weren't involved.

Do you see the difference?


chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 11:34 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:
If the freedom riders and sit- inners of the 1960s had received that kind of negative publicity


they certainly did


This is completely different - no one supports this (other than the idiot protesters and a few others) - even the black community which supposedly these idiots are supporting. In many interviews on TV news you see the black community speaking out against this protest and are concerned this sort of protest will turn people away from supporting black lives matter.

Also more than just the ambulances were impacted -- people going for chemo treatments, doctors trying to get to hospitals to work and other black individuals trying to get to work and as a result lost money -- those that they claim they are trying to help -- they hurt.

Great article talking about this.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/01/18/need-for-change-but-protesters-not-helping/SlQiwWaWF5oudzUNXK3OWI/story.html


Media wise, it's a whole different story from the protests of the 60's. The protests then grew more slowly, gaining attention of the media over time.
There was overall, a long range goal that involved multiple protests that grew over time. They stemmed and grew from small events like Rosa Parks just being tired and wanting to sit while riding home. Or 4 black men deciding they wanted to eat at a lunch counter. It said "This is what we want", "This is the world we want to live in" It grew.

Today in our Twitter/FaceBook world, all you gotta do is one time pull some stunt that could, and did result in the disruption of urgently needed healthcare, and equally hindered the people they were protesting on the behalf of.

Linkat and I are not some small town girls from an isolated area just saying we don't like any type of change. This was just a stupid, stupid way to go about trying to make a change.
If a protest is planned in a thoughtful, safe way, and in a way that can afterwards demonstrate a positive difference it made, than go ahead.

This incident wasn't any of those.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 11:37 am
Some of the people in A2K just enjoy calling other people idiots...or morons...or stupid...or ignorant.

I guess it makes them feel better about themselves.

These protesters may have been misguided...and they may not have thought out all the ramifications of what they were doing...

...but they are NOT perforce idiots...

...except perhaps to people with such low self-esteem they need to depict others in negative terms so that they can feel better about themselves by doing so.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 11:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
You're wrong Frank.

You're too hung up on words, and missing the message.

Fine, replace the word "idiot", with "misguided humans who still should have known enough not to pull such a dangerous stunt because they supposedly have the capacity to think a short way into the future and anticpate negative consequences"

Better?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 12:03 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

You're wrong Frank.


No, I am not wrong here, Chai.

Quote:
You're too hung up on words, and missing the message.

Fine, replace the word "idiot", with "misguided humans who still should have known enough not to pull such a dangerous stunt because they supposedly have the capacity to think a short way into the future and anticpate negative consequences"

Better?


Hung up on words?????

In an Internet forum where the only way to express yourself is by using words?

You called these people idiots...and I am saying they cannot be called idiots just because of what you are citing as idiotic behavior.

You and Link and some of the others disagree with what they did...or the way they did it.

It was enough to say that...rather than to characterize them as idiots.

But as I said, there are people in A2K who, perhaps because of low self-esteem, revel in calling other people idiots or morons...or who delight in calling others stupid or ignorant.

If it is helping you feel better about yourself, Chai...do it.

I'm just disagreeing with you...and attempting to do it in a more reasonable way than you are disagreeing with them.


ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 12:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Gotta agree with you on this.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 12:15 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Lumping this idiotic protest to the purposeful protests of the 1960 is a grave insult to the freedom marches.

Blocking traffic on an interstate has one purpose and one effect. Their sole aim is to inconvenience people... random people who have nothing to do with the "injustice" they are protesting.

The freedom riders purpose was to ride a bus with equality. The lunch counter demonstrations were exercising rights. None of these protests were designed with the goal of hurting people who weren't involved.

Do you see the difference?





Of course. Read my post. We're in total agreement here.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 12:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Fine Frank, you're right.

I feel awful about myself.


You do realize though, that words can adjust themselves to the entire situation, right?

If you're for instance, driving down the highway and someone cuts you off, and you happen to say to yourself "What an idiot" I think if you wrote that here, people would understand you truly didn't think that person had an IQ between 0 and 20, but would know that person did a really dumb, unacceptable thing, but overall that might have been a really nice person.

People can, and do use words all the time in writing with no expectation that reader is going to obsess on some word or phrase that was written to express an overall feeling/mood etc.

Would it make you feel better Frank, if I had the ability to go back and change every single post I made, changing the word idiot to:

"Some misguided person who made a poor decision, thereby proving they were only human, just as you or I are. Even though I respect this person as a human with rights and self worth, I feel the action they took in this specific incidence was a poor decision, and had a high likelihood of producing negative outcomes, such as death."

Please Frank, feel free to go back and read my posts, inserting the above instead of idiot.

That way, we can get your obsession with one word out of the way, and perhaps think of ways this "protest" could have been something productive and positive.

Jesus.

 

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