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Idiot Protestors Snarl Traffic_Ambulance diverted

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 04:29 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

These people were not idiots.


That said, if they expect to continue their civil disobedience and not get sent to jail, they aren't exactly the brightest bulbs either.

Protesting is not for the faint of heart, and the old school Civil Rights protestors were fully prepared to go to jail for their actions.


I suspect many of them expect they will end up in jail...no matter what trash talk they talk.

They may not be the brightest bulbs. I am not the brightest bulb.

But that does not make them idiots...nor does it make me one.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 04:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am sure they do feel badly - especially the idiot that was screaming when sparks were flying and hitting him from the tools the police and fire fighters used to get them out of the restraints.

Warmed my heart.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 04:33 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

Linkat wrote:

I did not include Mitt Romney's opinion as he is not governor or mayor.


He's a former governor of your state, and if you contend Frank should defer to someone just because that person's the Governor of Massachusetts, your argument should apply retroactively to everything Romney said when governor as well.


but I still did not quote him - so why the heck bring him up.'

This is not about politics -- but about good old common sense which these protesters lack. The governor and mayor whatever party they belong to are responsible in part for public safety where is Frank doesn't really hold that job.

Fire chief, police, and ambulances are also part of the public safety and should also be much more knowledgeable about public safety.

0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 04:42 pm
I think it's a pretty safe assumption that during rush hour traffic in any metropolitan area there is going to be the need for several ambulances daily.

If someone died because the ambulance they were in couldn't get through, the world Would stop spinning and come crashing down for some people. Namely the injured person, and their families. Someone is going to lose the breadwinner, the caretaker of the children, their child, because some idiots are protecting something that isn't going to mean a hill of beans to anyone, in the long run?

Personally, and I know this is just so wrong Rolling Eyes I think most protests that take place are a crock of ****.
Just because someone feels strongly about something does not mean that standing around, blocking traffic, waving their arms and signs, and generally being a nuisance is the best way to work toward a solution.

If I could be shown empirical proof that some black person didn't have violence inflicted on them by police directly due to this protest, I might have something to think about as far as revising my opinion.

A group of people even planning something like this would have to, by definition, be idiots.

What about all the nurses, doctors etc that couldn't get to work, and because the hospital was now short staffed, someone died? A pilot can't get to the airport, so a flight is delayed/cancelled? What business did that distrupt down the line?
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 04:49 pm
@chai2,
Thank you Chai for being the voice of reason. Like I said it isn't about politics (I know the protest is in part) - but the upset of blocking the highway is not -- it is plain old common sense that it is a safety issue.

"Protesters wearing adult diapers whose arms were inside 55-gallon concrete barrels.."

If that isn't the defination of idiot - Need I say more
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:07 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:


Quote:
I doubt the protesters intentionally meant for the ambulance to be diverted. It happened...and it was an unfortunate happening.


Unfortunate -- just tell that to a loved one of the seriously injured party being brought to the hospital.

They are idiots to think that blocking an entire highway would not potentially cause an ambulance or other emergency vehicle from getting past. Before this even happened - someone on the radio said I will be pissed if someone dies trying to get to the hospital.

The poor police have to deal with idiots like this. I am all for supporting a peaceful protest, but not one with causes safety issues.

You really should read the article rather than make blanket statements thinking - it MIGHT interfere with traffic - it was made to stop traffic on a major highway.


If a loved one of mine died, or suffered harm due to not being able to get medical help because of this protest, I would sue the asses off that organization, and make it my lifes mission to destroy them.

I would feel very strongly about that.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:18 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

"Protesters wearing adult diapers whose arms were inside 55-gallon concrete barrels.."

If that isn't the defination of idiot - Need I say more


Hmm...

Their goal is to draw attention to their cause, isn't it?

I'm coming around on the question of whether blocking traffic was a good idea, tactically, for these protestors. It might not be, what with possible lawsuits and jail time.

The diapers and concrete might have potential, though. People certainly stand up and take notice!
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:22 pm
@Kolyo,
No, their goal was to stop violence by the police against blacks.

What better way than to risk the lives of others.

The attention they are getting here is to acknowledge they are idiots, and what they did was dangerous and not at all effective.

Doing foolish things like wearing adult diapers etc might be appropriate for something like the grand opening of a childs bedding store, but not for a matter of seriousness.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The goal of a protest is to get public support for your cause. A protest that gets the general public to turn against you is, by definition, an idiotic protest. This protest goes directly against their own goals.

This was an idiotic protest. To compare this to the civil rights protests of the past (which were effective in getting public sympathy for their cause) is an insult to civil rights protesters of the past.

0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:40 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

The attention they are getting here is to acknowledge they are idiots


Suppose they hadn't blocked traffic but had merely used diapers and concrete to make their point...

For a truly selfless protestor, the goal isn't to get people to like you or to convince people that you're smart, or non-idiotic. The goal is to further the cause -- in this case stopping police violence against blacks.

If my protest leaves people thinking I'm an idiot (or a lunatic), but also demonstrates to people how determined and passionate I am about a particular issue, they may come to think of the issue as one that requires society's attention. I lose esteem in people's minds, but perhaps my cause gains?

(BTW- I didn't vote you down.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:53 pm
These people are not idiots nor were they acting idiotic.

The people were doing what they did...protesting.

They may not have thought out all the ramifications of their actions...and may have consciously or unconsciously disregarded some of the dangerous aspects to self and others because of their fervor.

But they were not idiotic any more than the sit-in demonstrators of the early 1960's in the American south...who knew their protests might develop into situations of great harm for themselves and others.

Any one of you who has ever done anything because of the kinds of things motivating these people...and NEVER had an unintended consequence...should speak up loud and clear.

The rest of you ought all to hold your absurd indignation.

In my opinion, these people are much closer to being heroic than being idiotic...and those of you not realizing that is the case are much closer to being idiotic than perceptive.
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:54 pm
@Kolyo,
and just How did blocking traffic help their cause?

If they only used diapers and concrete, they would have been merely stupid.

Stunts like any of these things don't make me think about how passionate they are about something. They make me think how they could have come up with something more meaningful and relevant to what they are trying to accomplish.

That's all they did, pull a stunt. A stunt in my mind has nothing to do with anything, and is immature and thoughtless.

Someone in that organization did some very poor thinking about the possible outcomes.

The $10,000 question in my mind is, How did this move them closer to a solution?
Don't say "it made people think about the problem" It didn't. Best case scenerio, it makes me think how they treated an issue as trival.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:


They may not have thought out all the ramifications of their actions....



Which is what makes them idiots.

I'm not indignant, as you suggest. Just tired of people not considering "gee, what could possibly go wrong?" like they don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 07:58 pm
People seem to have skipped along re Linkat and then my take on the embedding of arms into concrete. This is not an easy problem as concrete sets. Depends on timing, which I don't know about in this case. I figure they figure they'd be rescued to get them out of the way.

T. C. Boyles book, if I can bear to finish it, will tell me more; I'm at the beginning as it makes me uncomfortable, but he is a writer I admire.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You are wrong, Frank. It is a completely wrong to compare the ridiculous actions of these protesters today with the brave, purposeful actions of the real civil rights protesters of the past. The difference is obvious.

The only purpose of the protest today was to cause inconvenience. It was vindictive, angry and meaningless. The message wasn't about justice, or fairness or equality. What they are saying is "we want to inconvenience white people". This has nothing to do with the powerful messages of the civil rights movement.

The protests of the past always had a real purpose. They were registering people to vote, or supporting peoples right to ride the bus by riding the bus. Or supporting wages by not working. It wasn't random blocking of traffic for the purpose of blocking traffic.

I really don't think you have a case here Frank. There is a difference between purposeful civil disobedience and meaningless civil disorder.

Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:18 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The only purpose of the protest today was to cause inconvenience. It was vindictive, angry and meaningless.


Are you also against all forms of labor stoppage?

Because that's their purpose as well: to bring things to a halt.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:21 pm
@Kolyo,
Labor stoppage makes sense (assuming you are protesting wages or working conditions). It is a purposeful and directed form of protest with a clear, and responsible, message.

The protest today was ridiculous. The only aim of this protest was to create a nuisance for "white people" (these were the exact words of protest leaders on NPR). This is not a good message.

The drivers who were inconvenienced, as well as this ambulance patient, had nothing to do with anything. They were targeted because they just happened to be there.

These protests were lashing out at random people who had nothing to do with the injustice they were supposed to be protesting.


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:22 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:


They may not have thought out all the ramifications of their actions....



Which is what makes them idiots.


No, Chai, it does not. It identifies them as humans.


Quote:
I'm not indignant, as you suggest. Just tired of people not considering "gee, what could possibly go wrong?" like they don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.




Obviously you are someone who has never done anything that had unintended negative consequences. Because you are so perfect, you have the right to consider them to be inferior to you.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are wrong, Frank.


I have been wrong often...and when I am, I acknowledge it.

In this case, I do not think I am.



Quote:


It is a completely wrong to compare the ridiculous actions of these protesters today with the brave, purposeful actions of the real civil rights protesters of the past. The difference is obvious.

The only purpose of the protest today was to cause inconvenience. It was vindictive, angry and meaningless. The message wasn't about justice, or fairness or equality. What they are saying is "we want to inconvenience white people". This has nothing to do with the powerful messages of the civil rights movement.

The protests of the past always had a real purpose. They were registering people to vote, or supporting peoples right to ride the bus by riding the bus. Or supporting wages by not working. It wasn't random blocking of traffic for the purpose of blocking traffic.

I really don't think you have a case here Frank. There is a difference between purposeful civil disobedience and meaningless civil disorder.




They made a mistake.

I have made mistakes.

Since apparently you have never made one...I understand that you have standing to consider them beneath you.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Jan, 2015 08:29 pm
@Frank Apisa,
For the record, Frank. I am not saying that these protesters are idiots. I am saying that this protest is idiotic. There is a big difference between these two statements.

This protest was a big mistake, but they should have realized that before they went ahead and did it.

How you protest matters. If you are going to protest, why not choose a form of protest that is purposeful and meaningful and has a chance of gaining sympathy from the general public. This protest failed on all counts.

 

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