21
   

When does baby's life start?

 
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2014 04:54 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

i remember once hearing life begins at 40

Then...I'm waiting for life to begin...I had no idea I'm an embryo.


For 90 percent life never begins, just a long chain of stimulus and response and muscle memory.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2014 05:01 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

Germlat wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

i remember once hearing life begins at 40

Then...I'm waiting for life to begin...I had no idea I'm an embryo.



You've got statistics on fetuses living outside the womb?
0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Dec, 2014 10:09 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
Well, you know where I stand. The baby is alive before its entered the womb.
Still not getting it? Wink


Where you stand is irrelevant and without evidence. If you want to support your claim, you can present your scientific data and research of a living baby missing it's atoms.. Until then, you have no argument worth consideration. And to make matters worse, I had a dream that all babies died because your god farted.. And there for there, by your idea of acceptable evidence, there are no more babies since you believe dreams are facts. But hey, even if we wanted to play your game, Pope Gregory XIV affirmed the quickening test for ensoulment in 1591, he set the time for when a soul enters the fetus at 116 days into pregnancy, or the sixteenth week. Even the Earliest years of the Church or in Judaism the soul was not considered within the fetus till well after conception, and nor was their a viable baby till after birth. Saint Thomas Aquinas of the thirteenth century followed Augustine in the belief that a fetus was without soul, and that such a non-ensouled fetuses were not to be considered an act of murder.. And that is if one wants to play the meaningless woo game.. Now ignoring you, I would like to clarify things from a previous post:

1. Baby is a stage of life in medical literature just as puberty and adult-hood.
2. To ask when a baby's life begins is like asking when does someone's adult life begin.. You have to establish a coherent time frame in which you can say you have a baby, and a point in which a baby's life begins just as we need to for when an adult life begins. And here are the stages of human development:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Prenatal_development_table.svg/1400px-Prenatal_development_table.svg.png

Quote:

1. sperm and egg (generally)
2. conception / fertilization
3. Zygote
4. embryo
5. Fetus
6. Neonate (newborn) (0 – 30 days)
7. Infant (baby) (0 month - 12 months)
8. Toddler (1 – 3 years)
9. Play age (4–5 years)
10. Primary school age (middle childhood also called prepubescence) (4-12)
11. Elementary school age (6-12)
13. Preadolescence (The child in this and the previous phase are called 13. schoolchild (schoolboy or schoolgirl), when still of primary school age.) (10 – 12 years)
14. Adolescence and puberty (13 – 19 years)
15. Peripuberty (8[3]-10[4] until 15[4]-17[5])
16. Adulthood (20+ years)
17. Young adulthood (20 – 39 years)
18. Middle adulthood (40 – 59 years)
19. Advanced adulthood/Senior citizen (60+ years)
20. Death (occurs at various ages, depending on person)
21. Decomposition (breakdown of the body after death)


So when I see people point to conception as the point in which you have a baby, it's like someone holding a bolt and claiming they have a car. Umm no, you have a bolt and not a car, and you at best have a piece in which could be used in making a car. However you don't have a car. Thus egg cells, sperm cells, the first stem cells etc are not babies. Only an uneducated and intellectually inept person would argue them as such. And if I were to show you a picture of cell division and ask you which cell is the baby, this while knowing cell death occurs during embryonic development, you would be hard pressed to tell me which cell is a baby, or how a cell is a baby... That gets even more hilarious for abortion proponents because not only can that cell actually die in the process of embryogenesis, they can't coherently point to any given cell as the "Baby". Furthermore, if they start classifying cell development and cell types as babies, they will have to consider that every-time they scratch an itch, ejaculate into a tissue, swallow, or have a period, that they are committing abortion and infanticide. They can't actually take a position without committing hilarious incoherent hypocrisy.. It is literally comical at how stupid their pro-life arguments are. If you are going to be Pro-life, at least get an education first and make sure you know what you're talking about. O.o

Furthermore, the most hilarious are the religious Christian pro-lifers claiming you have a baby at conception while lacking even a basic education concerning their own religion.. Yeah many of them don't comprehend the breath of life, the first breaths in which an infant takes after birth is when the child life began.. It gets even more Ironic that these same Christian anti-abortion pro-life fanatics worship and praise a god they believe committed infanticide, not once, but numerous of times. They aren't pro-life, they are simply stupid and ideologically lost in self-contradiction and ignorance.






Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 03:10 am
@TheJackal,
Quote:
Where you stand is irrelevant and without evidence


Well, for you. Not for me and others.

So, waht you really should have written is this:

Quote:
Where you stand is irrelevant (to me and how I think I understand it) and without evidence (that I can accept and understand and according to the methods I think I understand.)


Feel te difference? Wink

As I said you are according to me, way too dependent on the religion called 'science'.

It is ok, It is a process.
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 03:43 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
Well, for you. Not for me and others.

You and others can believe what-ever woo you want, it yet still has no actual relevancy or established credulity. You may as well believe babies are delivered by stork, or born from dead smurfs on the night of a blue moon since real world evidence means nothing to you.. I dare say if I told all of your ilk that gravity is just a theory on the cliff's edge, you would all jump like comic book lemmings to your deaths. Or are you just a Creationist fat kid behind a keyboard playing a game of crank for an attention seeking orgasmic ride in desperate need of attention? I am betting on the last part here as being most likely accurate.

Thus I respond here for purely the amusement of seeing what happens when I bait an internet troll and feed it. This is sort of like having a house pet and making it chase the little red dot it can't ever have around in circles.. O.o
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 04:20 am
@TheJackal,
Quote:
You and others can believe what-ever woo you want, it yet still has no actual relevancy or established credulity. You may as well believe babies are delivered by stork, or born from dead smurfs on the night of a blue moon since real world evidence means nothing to you.. I dare say if I told all of your ilk that gravity is just a theory on the cliff's edge, you would all jump like comic book lemmings to your deaths. Or are you just a Creationist fat kid behind a keyboard playing a game of crank for an attention seeking orgasmic ride in desperate need of attention? I am betting on the last part here as being most likely accurate.

Thus I respond here for purely the amusement of seeing what happens when I bait an internet troll and feed it. This is sort of like having a house pet and making it chase the little red dot it can't ever have around in circles.. O.o



This is just an opinion of yours, and you are of course entitled to them.
But in the end it still is just an opinion of course.
Can't you 'grock' that?

And calling someone a troll isn't going to help the discussion? Now is it?

If you are soooo sure about your ( very wrong) statements, then what is it that triggers the darker side of your personality?
Might it be fear? Wink The fear that you have been lied to all your life?
That is tough, I know, I know.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:13 am
@Quehoniaomath,
So... It's descent enough to acknowledge survival outside the womb., how do you feel about Gendercide in a China and India or Latin America for that fact. After the child is born....not being a male has big consequences....how many female newborns are killed? I dare you watch a documentary...it's called " Its a girl". I welcome your thoughts...but ---then maybe your privilege to the Western works is all that counts.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:21 am
@TheJackal,
You're wasting a whole lot of effort on a dummy that has no concept of biology - or common sense. Mr. Green
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:28 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You're wasting a whole lot of effort on a dummy that has no concept of biology - or common sense. Mr. Green

This person hasn't a comprehension of Science and actually abhors all who are versed in it....
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:30 am
@Germlat,
Quote:
So... It's descent enough to acknowledge survival outside the womb., how do you feel about Gendercide in a China and India or Latin America for that fact. After the child is born....not being a male has big consequences....how many female newborns are killed? I dare you watch a documentary...it's called " Its a girl". I welcome your thoughts...but ---then maybe your privilege to the Western works is all that counts.


What are you saying now? I don't understand.
That I approve of abortion or what? Please explain.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:34 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
So... It's descent enough to acknowledge survival outside the womb., how do you feel about Gendercide in a China and India or Latin America for that fact. After the child is born....not being a male has big consequences....how many female newborns are killed? I dare you watch a documentary...it's called " Its a girl". I welcome your thoughts...but ---then maybe your privilege to the Western works is all that counts.


What are you saying now? I don't understand.
That I approve of abortion or what? Please explain.

Exactly what I said...sorry it does not compute....
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:38 am
@Germlat,
Quote:
Exactly what I said...sorry it does not compute....


it doesn't look like anything I have said here, hence it won't compute.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:42 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
Exactly what I said...sorry it does not compute....


it doesn't look like anything I have said here, hence it won't compute.


Better try to explore it then...it may just open your eyes....
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:47 am
@Germlat,
Quote:
Better try to explore it then...it may just open your eyes....


No, I have seen enough for now.
0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 02:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
I am just messing with him now.. Hence, we may as well have a little fun with the local idiot Wink
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 02:44 am
@TheJackal,
Quote:
I am just messing with him now.. Hence, we may as well have a little fun with the local idiot


messing? lol. You indeed have no clue!
Local idiot? ok, again an Ad Hominem.

Something I said, mate?

You must having a difficult time, if you call someone who disagrees with you a
local idiot.

No arguments, nothing.

Ypu seem not to even be able to explain why you write this way.

Your funny, this is true.


You don't get it now, do you?
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 03:07 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
This is just an opinion of yours, and you are of course entitled to them.
But in the end it still is just an opinion of course.
Can't you 'grock' that?


Nope, I speak only in pure facts Wink

Quote:
And calling someone a troll isn't going to help the discussion? Now is it?]


I wasn't calling you anything, I was noting the classification of what you are, And of course it helps with the discussion as it defines your lack of credulity as you continue to play "I need a attention" while professing obvious stupidity that only a complete idiot would profess, or that an internet troll would engage in.. Hence take your pick, you are either classified as an internet troll, or someone who's a complete idiot.

Quote:
If you are soooo sure about your ( very wrong) statements, then what is it that triggers the darker side of your personality?


Oh I am very sure of my (very correct) statements, and such factual statements are indeed cold and dark as truth hurts... My personality is neither apologetic nor in caring if you feel that I am insulting your lack of education or intelligence. Such dishonest and desperate woeful ignorance deserves mockery, and denial of respect. The most tolerance you will be given is you're right to free speech as woeful stupidity and ignorance deserves nothing more. You can try and play a dishonest game of moral high-ground all you like to try and give yourself false credulity, but at the end of the day, you're just an internet trolling kid behind a keyboard who is clearly desperate for attention..

Quote:
Might it be fear? Wink


Fear of what exactly? The only reason people like me attack ignorant idiots such as you is because idiots such as yourself are dangerous. Dangerous not always in the sense of violence, but dangerous to any civilization simply by the damage that such woeful ignorance promotes, breeds, and causes .. Woeful ignorance is indeed dangerous, and it gets people killed and leads to things like genocide, infanticide, dominion theology, famine, faith healing that kills kids, poverty, crime, an excuse to deny others rights, racism, and so forth as the list could go on. An uneducated and woefully ignorant society is a very dangerous one, and never has there ever been a healthy one. And if it means mocking and disrespecting woeful idiots and internet trolls to help prevent the spread of such idiotry, the means in such mockery justifies the end. And I must add, there is a difference between ignorance and woeful ignorance. Such woeful dishonesty teaches a society to be dishonest, and it breeds.., and that is the sort of thing you represent. And at the end of all this, I can at least say that I am bluntly honest even if you feel offended.

So what are you going to do? Write another ignorant post? Troll, tell me this is all my opinion, cry about how you're being persecuted, how I am being intolerant of your idiotry, or profess your fact lacking and asserted beliefs as having any real relevancy? Lol.... Ok.. Carry on.. Razz


0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 03:27 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
messing? lol. You indeed have no clue!
Local idiot? ok, again an Ad Hominem.


Facts are not ad Hominems, and in order for me to be presenting an Ad Hominem, I would have to be dismissing your arguments based on saying you're an idiot.. The fact you're an idiot or troll is however not why I dismiss your arguments. But we all already knew this Wink

Quote:
You must having a difficult time, if you call someone who disagrees with you a
local idiot.


Disagreement in itself is not what makes you an idiot. Though I find this rather easy than difficult. First you supply the intellectually inept material, and then it's as simple as using a keyboard.., you know how that works right? Common, you can be far more clever than this crap.

Quote:
No arguments, nothing.


This is an argument with arguments.. And from what I can tell, mine are not ignorant arguments, but rather very well founded arguments. Wink
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 05:48 am
@TheJackal,
Quote:
Facts are not ad Hominems, and in order for me to be presenting an Ad Hominem, I would have to be dismissing your arguments based on saying you're an idiot.. The fact you're an idiot or troll is however not why I dismiss your arguments. But we all already knew this


1. A repeated Ad Hominem nothing more.

Quote:
Disagreement in itself is not what makes you an idiot. Though I find this rather easy than difficult. First you supply the intellectually inept material, and then it's as simple as using a keyboard.., you know how that works right? Common, you can be far more clever than this crap.


Well, of course you call me an idiot because I disagree with all your bullshit.
You can't give me any other reason.
And hoppa an Ad Hominem again.

Quote:
This is an argument with arguments.. And from what I can tell, mine are not ignorant arguments, but rather very well founded argument


lol, you are really very funny!
Starts studying at least some logic, mate.
An Ad Hominem is NOT an argument, mate!
An Ad Hominem is because of a LACK of arguments.

Ah anyway, you have even no clue what you are talking about yourself.

btw you are on ignore from now.
You have nothing, and I mean nothing of substance, and can only do name calling etc.

It is a pity, but it is your loss.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2014 06:23 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
Facts are not ad Hominems, and in order for me to be presenting an Ad Hominem, I would have to be dismissing your arguments based on saying you're an idiot.. The fact you're an idiot or troll is however not why I dismiss your arguments. But we all already knew this


1. A repeated Ad Hominem nothing more.

Quote:
Disagreement in itself is not what makes you an idiot. Though I find this rather easy than difficult. First you supply the intellectually inept material, and then it's as simple as using a keyboard.., you know how that works right? Common, you can be far more clever than this crap.


Well, of course you call me an idiot because I disagree with all your bullshit.
You can't give me any other reason.
And hoppa an Ad Hominem again.

Quote:
This is an argument with arguments.. And from what I can tell, mine are not ignorant arguments, but rather very well founded argument


lol, you are really very funny!
Starts studying at least some logic, mate.
An Ad Hominem is NOT an argument, mate!
An Ad Hominem is because of a LACK of arguments.

Ah anyway, you have even no clue what you are talking about yourself.

btw you are on ignore from now.
You have nothing, and I mean nothing of substance, and can only do name calling etc.

It is a pity, but it is your loss.
 

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