21
   

When does baby's life start?

 
 
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 06:24 pm
Silly people. Life begins at divorce. Rolling Eyes
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 06:50 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
If we are talking about when it would be morally OK to terminate a fetus, perhaps the decision should be left up to the fetus,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The fetus is inside a woman's body. She makes the decision for the fetus.
I was thinking one might wait for the fetus to develop.


Merry Christmas, Neo. I hope the best for you, your family, and friends.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 09:11 pm
A birth certificate is issued for a live birth, a death certificate is issued when you are no longer alive.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 09:12 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Silly people. Life begins at divorce. Rolling Eyes


When I was single, oh then, oh then,
When I was single, oh then.
When I was single, my pockets would jingle,
And I wisht I was single again.

I married me a wife, oh then, oh then.
I married me a wife, oh then.
I married me a wife, and she’s joy of my life,
And I wisht I was single again.

My wife died, oh then, oh then.
My wife died, oh then.
My wife died, and I laughed and I cried
To think I was single again.

I married me another, oh then, oh then.
I married me another, oh then.
I married me another, and she’s the Devil’s grandmother,
And I wisht I was single again.

She beat me, she banged me, oh then, oh then.
She beat me, she banged me, oh then.
She beat me, she banged me, and threatened to hang me,
And I wisht I was single again.

She beat me and mauled me, oh then, oh then.
She beat me and mauled me, oh then.
She beat me and mauled me and threatened to scald me,
Oh, I wisht I was single again.


Not sure of the author
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 09:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
]Merry Christmas, Neo. I hope the best for you, your family, and friends.
Many thanks, Frank. Wishing you the finest at any time of the year.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 11:11 am
@Linkat,
I know what you mean. It is only that through life experiences you come across women with different situations, so it puts a different perspective on it. I think it should be out of the hands of the government, for people who are so anti-government, they sure do want to the government to control people.

BTW, to all it may apply, hope everybody is having a Merry Christmas. Love Christmas, but boy, it is exhausting.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 12:34 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I know what you mean. It is only that through life experiences you come across women with different situations, so it puts a different perspective on it. I think it should be out of the hands of the government, for people who are so anti-government, they sure do want to the government to control people.

BTW, to all it may apply, hope everybody is having a Merry Christmas. Love Christmas, but boy, it is exhausting.


You're lucky. With our girls living in different states, we have nothing to celebrate.

“Government and co-operation are in all things the laws of life. Anarchy and competition, the laws of death.” John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 01:06 pm
Quote:
Programmed Dreams - Answers to the Question of Abortion

For years, I had awaited the opportunity to try the programmed dream on a person who was thinking about abortion. In thirty-nine years, none of the programmed dreams instructed anyone to do something morally wrong, so I was curious about the answer we would get concerning the question of abortion.

Finally the opportunity presented itself. A young lady with a history of drug addiction became pregnant, and her mother was insisting she have an abortion. It was her first pregnancy. I told her to program a dream as to what to do about the pregnancy that will work out best. Those last five words make a vital difference in the programming. No one will have reservation about receiving a programmed dream answer that will work out best. Persons might worry about getting an answer they don't want to hear - but those five words eliminate that particular resistance.

The next week, she reported the dream: she saw her two-year-old son lying dead on a cold steel slab in the morgue. She was still crying when she described her dream. The important thing is that after the dream, she was totally focused on saving her baby. She recalled seeing her father dead on a cold steel slab in the morgue, so this dream was designed specifically for her because the imagery is what would touch her heart the most.

This is a good dream for women to program when they see no option but to have an abortion. It is important not to program the dream: "What do I want to do?" That is an irrelevant question. What the person wants to do might be something quite foolish and have harmful results. To program "that will work out best" includes everything, even the future, and will bring the greatest happiness. When the answer comes, it is from a higher source, and the person knows it is right.

Not long after the first patient seeking abortion came to me, a man came to the office and mentioned that his sister was thinking of an abortion. Immediately I wrote the same programmed dream for him to give to her: "I will have a dream about the pregnancy, and the interpretation of the dream will tell me exactly what to do that will work out best." The man reported that he gave her the dream that same day, and when he saw her the next morning she leaped off the sofa, threw her arms around him, crying and crying. He thought something was terribly wrong and asked her what happened.

"I had the DREAM" she shouted, still crying. In her programmed dream she was in her back yard playing with her little baby - rolling a ball back and forth, chasing it around the yard, and having the most joyful time of her whole life. There were no more thoughts of abortion.

Dr. Clancy McKenzie, is a national and internationally recognized expert in the field of psychiatry, and psychoanalysis. His contribution of groundbreaking theories and treatment modalities for schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, drug and alcohol addiction, post traumatic stress disorder, delayed post traumatic stress disorders, mental illness and phobias. He is a prolific writer and a published author, and his groundbreaking book "Babies Need Mothers" has garnered rave reviews throughout the mental health community. Dr. Clancy McKenzie consistently utilizes, Programmed Dreams methodologies throughout his practice as he teaches his patients to utilize this profound and powerful self-healing method. Dr. McKenzie's blog can be found at http://www.drmckenzieblog.com and further teaching on his method and modalities are explained in depth at http://www.drmckenzie.com Dr. Clancy McKenzie believes in and practices holistic healing for the mind body and soul

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dr._Clancy_McKenzie
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 01:15 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
Programmed Dreams - Answers to the Question of Abortion

For years, I had awaited the opportunity to try the programmed dream on a person who was thinking about abortion. In thirty-nine years, none of the programmed dreams instructed anyone to do something morally wrong, so I was curious about the answer we would get concerning the question of abortion.

Finally the opportunity presented itself. A young lady with a history of drug addiction became pregnant, and her mother was insisting she have an abortion. It was her first pregnancy. I told her to program a dream as to what to do about the pregnancy that will work out best. Those last five words make a vital difference in the programming. No one will have reservation about receiving a programmed dream answer that will work out best. Persons might worry about getting an answer they don't want to hear - but those five words eliminate that particular resistance.

The next week, she reported the dream: she saw her two-year-old son lying dead on a cold steel slab in the morgue. She was still crying when she described her dream. The important thing is that after the dream, she was totally focused on saving her baby. She recalled seeing her father dead on a cold steel slab in the morgue, so this dream was designed specifically for her because the imagery is what would touch her heart the most.

This is a good dream for women to program when they see no option but to have an abortion. It is important not to program the dream: "What do I want to do?" That is an irrelevant question. What the person wants to do might be something quite foolish and have harmful results. To program "that will work out best" includes everything, even the future, and will bring the greatest happiness. When the answer comes, it is from a higher source, and the person knows it is right.

Not long after the first patient seeking abortion came to me, a man came to the office and mentioned that his sister was thinking of an abortion. Immediately I wrote the same programmed dream for him to give to her: "I will have a dream about the pregnancy, and the interpretation of the dream will tell me exactly what to do that will work out best." The man reported that he gave her the dream that same day, and when he saw her the next morning she leaped off the sofa, threw her arms around him, crying and crying. He thought something was terribly wrong and asked her what happened.

"I had the DREAM" she shouted, still crying. In her programmed dream she was in her back yard playing with her little baby - rolling a ball back and forth, chasing it around the yard, and having the most joyful time of her whole life. There were no more thoughts of abortion.

Dr. Clancy McKenzie, is a national and internationally recognized expert in the field of psychiatry, and psychoanalysis. His contribution of groundbreaking theories and treatment modalities for schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, drug and alcohol addiction, post traumatic stress disorder, delayed post traumatic stress disorders, mental illness and phobias. He is a prolific writer and a published author, and his groundbreaking book "Babies Need Mothers" has garnered rave reviews throughout the mental health community. Dr. Clancy McKenzie consistently utilizes, Programmed Dreams methodologies throughout his practice as he teaches his patients to utilize this profound and powerful self-healing method. Dr. McKenzie's blog can be found at http://www.drmckenzieblog.com and further teaching on his method and modalities are explained in depth at http://www.drmckenzie.com Dr. Clancy McKenzie believes in and practices holistic healing for the mind body and soul

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Dr._Clancy_McKenzie



You can break down all of verbosity by simply saying that Women should have the right to chose!!
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 02:03 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
You can break down all of verbosity by simply saying that Women should have the right to chose!!


Then, in my opinion, haven't you understand it at all.
0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:18 pm
@neologist,
A fetus is not a "Baby", and not guaranteed viable. Hence you don't have an actual baby until it is born and viable. Essentially don't count your chickens before they hatch. Even in religions in Mesopotamia long ago, didn't consider a child until it took it's first breath, and that was known as the "Breath of Life". It wasn't till much later that the idea of being with child was associated to finding out one is pregnant.

Regardless however, we cannot classify a fetus as a baby, but rather that which has the potential to become a baby. Hence it is a potential baby in the making. Lastly, when can we differentiate a body of cells from the emergence of person-hood? Well, I would argue when the brain has become viable and higher order brain functions emerge usually after 27 weeks, or when consciousness may first begin its emergence.

Otherwise an abortion is no different than you killing off sperm cells, egg cells, or scratching your face and killing skin cells. Hence all of those are also potential babies as living cells. Though I do wonder how smart some people are when they argue that life begins at conception since sperm and egg cells are living cells. And you don't see them all to concerned about killing any of those off. Hence to them, male masturbation, a blow job, or having a period ought to be considered infanticide...., or simply murder. O.o
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:21 pm
I think I'll go hardcore traditionalist and say somewhere after the second birthday, when children were counted in the census centuries ago.
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:24 pm
@TheJackal,
Quote:
A fetus is not a "Baby", and not guaranteed viable


Are you sure and if so, why?
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:33 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
A fetus is not a "Baby", and not guaranteed viable


Are you sure and if so, why?

A fetus is a human being in progress. The likelihood of survival depends on many factors, including pre-natal care, finances, etc. Still....the mother is the most impacted physiologically, physically, psychologically , financially....I'm pro-choice.
0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:37 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
If you can count a body of cells as a baby, you could then argue any cell or body of cells as a "baby". It is incoherent to call a fetus a "baby". And a full human child consists more than just human cells.. Hence a full child, for example, will consist of mostly non-human tissue / cell as bacteria and other living single celled organisms make up the majority of the living cells of a typical human child by tenfold. Many of which do much of the work to which keeps us alive. Hence there is no way you could consider a fetus a child and make any coherent sense. And I know of no scientific community that is going to start classifying skin cells, embryonic cells, or stem cells as a living and breathing baby. If you disagree, I would recommend that you stop clapping, or scratching an itch as you would then have to consider yourself a baby killer committing infanticide. One must be scientifically illiterate to consider a fetus a baby. :/

To also give an example, we can convert skin cells to sperm and egg cells to where in one can make a child.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/tech-researchers-make-sperm-and-eggs-from-adult-skin-cells-082613

So where is it that you suggest there is a baby? Yeah maybe perhaps when a child is actually born and viable? I would argue this the most logical and coherently reasonable point in where you can declare that you have a child.

Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:40 pm
@TheJackal,
Quote:
If you can count a body of cells as a baby, you could then argue any cell or body of cells as a "baby". It is incoherent to call a fetus a "baby". And a full human child consists more than just human cells.. Hence a full child, for example, will consist of mostly non-human tissue / cell as bacteria and other living single celled organisms make up the majority of the living cells of a typical human child by tenfold. Many of which do much of the work to which keeps us alive. Hence there is no way you could consider a fetus a child and make any coherent sense. And I know of know scientific community that is going to start classifying skin cells, embryonic cells, or stem cells as a living and breathing baby. If you disagree, I would recommend that you stop clapping, or scratching an itch as you would then have to consider yourself a baby killer committing infanticide


Lot of strange rambling.
Strange reply indeed! How about children who communicated, e.g. by dreams, with the mother before they were physically born?

.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:43 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

Quote:
If you can count a body of cells as a baby, you could then argue any cell or body of cells as a "baby". It is incoherent to call a fetus a "baby". And a full human child consists more than just human cells.. Hence a full child, for example, will consist of mostly non-human tissue / cell as bacteria and other living single celled organisms make up the majority of the living cells of a typical human child by tenfold. Many of which do much of the work to which keeps us alive. Hence there is no way you could consider a fetus a child and make any coherent sense. And I know of know scientific community that is going to start classifying skin cells, embryonic cells, or stem cells as a living and breathing baby. If you disagree, I would recommend that you stop clapping, or scratching an itch as you would then have to consider yourself a baby killer committing infanticide


Lot of strange rambling.

Strange reply indeed! How about children who communicated, e.g. by dreams, with the mother before they were physically born?

.

Did you get into the eggnog? I feel like I'm in a Salvador Dali painting.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:48 pm
@Germlat,
Quote:
Did you get into the eggnog? I feel like I'm in a Salvador Dali painting.


Something you eat? Wink


man o man
0 Replies
 
TheJackal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:49 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
You can't have dreams before you have a functional brain.. Even I considered your point, you're talking past 27 weeks while most abortions are within 7 to 8 weeks. Furthermore, a fetus with a well developed brain doesn't have a sense of time to know when it had a dream.. hence sensory information from the senses that develop could induce a dream at any point in time after the brain develops the ability to process that information into a conscious frame of reference. But as stated, you are looking past 27 weeks as the higher order of brain functions develop. However again, you still don't have a guarantee of having a viable fetus that will become a viable child / baby.. You seem to think counting chickens before they hatch is a reliable means of determining how many chickens you will actually have. That's incoherent even though wishful in hope.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 05:16 pm
@Germlat,
Maybe he or she read Anne Rice's the Witching Hour.
0 Replies
 
 

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