Water Softeners - What are the differences in brands?

Help Using a Rainsoft Gold Series Water Treatment System
My wife and I purchased a home last year that came with this system. Recently we noticed the toilets seem to have mineral build up, presumably due to the hard water.

After some trouble we locate the water treatment system and noticed it had zero (0) saline tablets in the ancillary storage container attached to the motors (Clearly I'm not a technical person.)

Nowhere inthe owners manual does it provide instruction. How many tablets do you put in the container? Does the container need to remain clean? I'm at a complete loss.

Can someone help?

Thanks,

Chris

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You can buy salt in 25, 40, 50 or 80 lb bags at most grocery, hardware and big box stores or water treatment dealers etc..

I suggest any brand of solar crystal salt. It is always the lowest priced and causes the fewest salt related problems if any. You should not fill the salt tank. You should always have enough salt in the tank to have some of it above the level of the water in the tank.

Pellet or 50 lb block salt allows undissolved grains of salt to lay in the water in the bottom of the tank and get rock hard. That causes the water level to rise in the tank to cause more rock hard build up in the bottom of the tank. That causes you to have to clean the rock hard build up out of the tank periodically, and that isn't fun and can cause problems that you then must fix while you have hard water throughout the house.

Since you have allowed it to run out of salt, you need to do two manual regenerations with the maximum salt dose for the volume and type of resin in the resin tank/softener. Do not use water during a regeneration or between the two of them.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Pellet or 50 lb block salt allows undissolved grains of salt to lay in the water in the bottom of the tank and get rock hard. That causes the water level to rise in the tank to cause more rock hard build up in the bottom of the tank. That causes you to have to clean the rock hard build up out of the tank periodically, and that isn't fun and can cause problems that you then must fix while you have hard water throughout the house.

This is true with all types and brands of water softeners with the lone exception of ECOwater softening systems.

ECOwater uses flash brining with pellets. Clean water goes into the salt tank, a short time is allowed for salt to
dissolve and then all of the brine solution is drawn out of the salt pellets during regeneration.
This leaves the brine tank clean and dry until the next regeneration.

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Yeah that's how I do it too. But I call it what it is; soft water brine makeup and Pre refill.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Yeah that's how I do it too. But I call it what it is; soft water brine makeup and Pre refill.

Call it what you want, but it's not the same as what the ECOwater system offers.

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I see, you mean it has cutzie flashing lights or the salt brine flashes different colors'n here I thought salt brine was nothing more than salt dissolved in water...

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Gary Slusser wrote:

I see, you mean it has cutzie flashing lights or the salt brine flashes different colors'n here I thought salt brine was nothing more than salt dissolved in water...

Don't further embarrass yourself, it's obvious that you don't have a clue.

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Thanks for all of the feedback. I apologize for theredundancy...
I have questions for the outside container...
1. Do I put any water in it?
2. If so, how much?
3. How much salt do I put into it?

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cmcgough wrote:

Thanks for all of the feedback. I apologize for theredundancy...
I have questions for the outside container...
1. Do I put any water in it?
2. If so, how much?
3. How much salt do I put into it?

Chris,

Here is a link to the owner's manual for your Rainsoft Gold Series Softener in PDF format...
http://www.rainsoftofhouston.com/manuals/AQC75T.pdf

Not a whole lot of info but some.

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cmcgough wrote:

Thanks for all of the feedback. I apologize for theredundancy...
I have questions for the outside container...
1. Do I put any water in it?
2. If so, how much?
3. How much salt do I put into it?

To be able to answer some of your questions...

What is the physical size of the resin tank in inches wide and height, minus the height of the control valve (tank only); that's the one with the control valve on it that you plug into a receptacle?

You need to use 15 lbs/cuft of resin, you get 3lbs of salt to dissolve into each gallon of water but, we don't know yet how much resin you have. We will when you tell us the size of the resin tank.

That manual does not tell you what you need to know now. The answers to my questions will allow me to tell you what to do with how much salt and water.

_________________
Gary Slusser
21 yrs in water treatment and well pumps, 12 yrs on the 'net helping people help themselves.

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Ok...so now we had another salesman out from a different company. They are trying to sell us a one of the IONICS systems (1.) FILTRAMAX Whole House Stainless Steel Water Treatment System. or 2.) IQ Series Stainless Steel Water Conditioner).

He didn't mention pricing as we had to reschedule the appointment for tomorrow.

Anyone have experience with IONICS? Any recommendations or issues with this particular brand?

I did ask about the manufacture of their equipment, he said IONICS make their own tanks. The control valve is made by Fleck Controls (which I have read is the best out there)...or is that wrong?

He talked about the warranties they offer. Unlike the Rainsoft option we looked at, their system has a "manufactures" lifetime warranty on everything but the electronics. The electronics has a 10 Year "manufacture" warranty. He said that the life time warranty that the Rainsoft dealer promised us is an extended lifetime warranty offered through that dealer and NOT the "manufacture". So if that particular dealer went out of business, or changed names, etc...we would be up a creek on the warranty and it would be null / void because it wasn't a true manufactures warranty.

Anyone have a situation like that with the warranty?

Thanks

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Fleck is not the best valve. The latest version of the Fleck is the best valve. That's the Clack WS-1.

You are looking at the most expensive brands of equipment. Unless you want to be sold something, you should look into buying equipment from some independent dealers. Maybe online too and if you don't want to install it, hire a plumber. You'll still save maybe $2000+.

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We manufacture the softeners and filters. My 2 bits.
Forget the branding part, they are only as good as the people behind them. So the guy who installed it, would perhaps say it's not their problem, and you will have to go to the manufacturer to make you whole.

Many water treatment units are now assembled in China. Your resins could come from India. A lot of the control heads are made in China with chinese components. The most important part of your softener or filter is the control head. It's like 50% of the cost of the unit.

You want the one that is serviceable. There is nothing you can do about a chinese manufactured control head except throw it out and get a new one. And god help you if you have a proprietary head and FRP. (The reinforced fiberglass tank that holds the media). Cos now you will have to buy another lousy control head, or buy a new unit altogether. Do not buy any unit that has proprietary anything. That's how they keep you coming back for more.

A softener will last 15-20 years if not stressed. Chlorine will break down the media and shorten it's life span by 50%. Other "stuff" in your water can contribute to fouling of the softener. Besides, do you really want to drink water that has not been dechlorinated or harmful chemicals removed? Get a whole house filter. Follow that by a softener. Stay away from the big box softeners. They are the ones that are meant to break down. Get you a Fleck or a Clack. I prefer the mechanical models. You can fix those really easily.

Don't fall for the "combo" (softener and filter) units that promises the best of both worlds in one unit. It's like the shampoo/conditioner products. Does not clean as well or conditions as well. Combo guys save money and charge you more. Does not cost much to throw in maybe 1/3 cu. ft of carbon into the frp.

Don't listen to the guys who tell you to use rock salt. The dirt and impurities in that particular type of salt makes it more likely that your control head will clog with dirt and require a service call. We are representatives for other firm's products as well. but we stay away from proprietary systems and their components. Too easily orphaned.

Check out the KDF/Carbon filter combinations for longest life and more thorough removal of chemicals, heavy metals etc from your water. Clean water is more important than silky soft. That's an aesthetic. Helps the pipes, clothes etc. etc. Hey, how about you?

Get you a system! Not just the softener. Things have come a long ways since....BTW the soap savings, free soap for a year,testing etc. part of the demo is standard. Everyone does it. Anyone been offered cookware?

$1500 for a pro model of softener or filter is about right. Sure you can buy it cheaper. But then the people who sold it to you will give you terrible service just when you need it most.

Hope that helps!

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I rate equipment this way . . .

Brand name: ECOwater systems - Made in the USA Cool

Private label assembly: Most any system with a quality Fleck or Clack valve - I prefer Fleck 2510 SE control valves.

For best results: Have the system installed by a local water quality improvement specialist that can service the system if the need arises.

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Re: We manufacture the softeners and filters. My 2 bits.

msjimmied wrote:

Many water treatment units are now assembled in China. Your resins could come from India. A lot of the control heads are made in China with chinese components. The most important part of your softener or filter is the control head. It's like 50% of the cost of the unit.

Can you name a few units and control valves that are assembled and/or made in China?

msjimmied wrote:

And god help you if you have a proprietary head and FRP. (The reinforced fiberglass tank that holds the media). Cos now you will have to buy another lousy control head, or buy a new unit altogether.

What's wrong with FRP? It was used extensively for decades until Structural sent the manufacturing to India. Since then I don't see it used much but, it has a couple advantages over polyglass.

msjimmied wrote:

Get a whole house filter. Follow that by a softener.

Do you mean a disposable cartridge filter? If so, they cause more problems for a softener than not. And a 2.5" x 10" model was never meant to be on a "whole house" basis.

msjimmied wrote:

Don't listen to the guys who tell you to use rock salt. The dirt and impurities in that particular type of salt makes it more likely that your control head will clog with dirt and require a service call.

Clack and Fleck control valves don't gag on dirt, so what controls are you talking about and what blocks up on them?

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Re: We manufacture the softeners and filters. My 2 bits.

Gary Slusser wrote:

msjimmied wrote:
Many water treatment units are now assembled in China. Your resins could come from India. A lot of the control heads are made in China with chinese components. The most important part of your softener or filter is the control head. It's like 50% of the cost of the unit.

Can you name a few units and control valves that are assembled and/or made in China?

big box GE's. Actually at least 70% of those you see in the big box stores. It may be a name you recognize as being "USA" but they are made in China.

msjimmied wrote:
And god help you if you have a proprietary head and FRP. (The reinforced fiberglass tank that holds the media). Cos now you will have to buy another lousy control head, or buy a new unit altogether.

What's wrong with FRP? It was used extensively for decades until Structural sent the manufacturing to India. Since then I don't see it used much but, it has a couple advantages over polyglass.

Sorry, I was not clear. I am referring to the structural vessels that will not fit a Fleck or Clack etc. Will fit only the proprietary valves.

msjimmied wrote:
Get a whole house filter. Follow that by a softener.

Do you mean a disposable cartridge filter? If so, they cause more problems for a softener than not. And a 2.5" x 10" model was never meant to be on a "whole house" basis.

No, a whole house filter. Since there are no salt use issues etc. I generally will install a 10X54. I cannot understand why any self respecting water professional will install a 2.5X10 cartridge type filter for a whole house application. Even a big blue I would shy away from, cos it'll nickel and dime you.

msjimmied wrote:
Don't listen to the guys who tell you to use rock salt. The dirt and impurities in that particular type of salt makes it more likely that your control head will clog with dirt and require a service call.

Clack and Fleck control valves don't gag on dirt, so what controls are you talking about and what blocks up on them?

Anything will gag on dirt. How many brine injectors gag? However, I am not writing this in a way to challenge or show anyone up. I am sharing. There is so much frustration from some of the readers about what is considered a good investment in their water systems for their homes. Quality is going down, prices are going to nose bleed levels. 9k for a water softener and undersink RO? Give me a freakin break!!! I don't care how much soap you give me!

Municipal water is relatively easy, well owners should not attempt to treat their water without professional help. Get an independent water report and then shop around. Listen to your common sense. If you have sediment in your water, you will need a sediment filter. If you have iron and hydrogen sulphide, you will need to chlorinate or use one or the other of the iron filters. If you chlorinate you will still need a sediment filter to filter out the precipitated matter from the water or it'll clog up your carbon filter over time. Issues like this need a regular system. Not cartridges! I have seen too many woefully inadequate systems to count. I hope to be able to provide answers when I can. I am not pushing anything but sharing knowledge. Peace.

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Re: We manufacture the softeners and filters. My 2 bits.

msjimmied wrote:

I have seen too many woefully inadequate systems to count. I hope to be able to provide answers when I can. I am not pushing anything but sharing knowledge. Peace.

I agree with you. Welcome to the forum. I hope your input will be helpful and keep things on an even keel.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

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Andy, some help here since msjimmied didn't answer the questions above, and in an attempt to give you an opportunity to keep things on an even keel, do you know of any control valves made in China as msjimmied claims?

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Would Culligan be considered a major player?

http://www.analytiqa.com/newsitem.aspx?articleid=2290

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Yes I forgot about that article and in reading it now, again over a year later than originally, it does not say their control valves are made in China.

I see that msjimmied answered some of my questions inside the quote in his last reply...

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Water Softeners - What are the differences in brands?

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