Water Softeners - What are the differences in brands?

Gary Slusser wrote:

About the only difference is that the plumber or sales person/dealer makes more money.

Plumbers and sales people make money... I thought they earned their money in exchange for services provided.

water softener system selection
Thanks for the info. Can you recommend some online sites that we can search? Would it be possible to buy a system online and then pay a local plumber to install it?

Also, what is the minimum that we need to look for in a system? Our calcium is 51.0 mg/L, iron 0.64 mg/L, hardness 152 mg/L, magnesium 6.0 mg/L, manganese 0.76 mg/L, zinc 0.34 mg/L - this is from the county test in 2004 shortly after the well was installed. We have not had it formally tested since then. The puronics guy tested it last night, but showed the PH at 6.8; however, we have a fish tank and my husband regularly tests the PH, it usually runs 7.4 out of the tap.

Is the Rain Soft or a similar system worth that much more or will a lesser priced system do the same thing?

Thanks again for your advice - we're trying to do our homework before committing to spending that much money.

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water softener system selection
I forgot to mention - two of our neighbors have water treatment systems, one is brand MacLean, the other is brand Econo-Minder. Has anybody heard of these? I think the MacLean cost about $2K installed, the Econominder a little less.

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A softener is made up of a control valve, by pass valve, resin tank, resin and a salt tank.

With industry standard softeners, meaning non proprietary and usually sold by independent dealers, and most national brands like Kinetico (except their water powered control valve), Culligan, MacClean, etc., all of those things are made by individual manufacturers.

Big box brands are all made by one company and are considered as throw away softeners. That's because they last about 2-5 years before they break. The company is Ecowater, and they make softeners for their own dealer network too. That equipment is basically the same as the big box units with a few more features but sold for $3000 or more. No residential softener is worth more than $1500-1800 with installation.

I suggest a correctly sized softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve.

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Softeners purchased online are throw away softeners.

For best results, I suggest homeowners deal directly with a local independent H2O service company or your local ECOwater dealer.

Find a full service H2O company that sells, installs and services what they sell.

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A salty mess!
My wife has been complaining about the hardness of the water for the last couple months, and I played around with the number of grains on my Ecosystems ERR 3000 R20 water softener, to no avail. I also noticed that it's been at least 6 months since I added salt to the softener, while I used to have to add a bag at least once every two months.

So I got some pails and emptied out most of the salt from the system, and it turns out that near the bottom the salt had solidified.

I'm at a loss of what to do next. I added some water to loosen it up, and will (slowly) remove most of the salt, but does this mean that my system's good for dead? Should a regeneration help?

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Re: A salty mess!

mmcmonster wrote:

I also noticed that it's been at least 6 months since I added salt to the softener, while I used to have to add a bag at least once every two months.

So I got some pails and emptied out most of the salt from the system, and it turns out that near the bottom the salt had solidified.

I'm at a loss of what to do next. I added some water to loosen it up, and will (slowly) remove most of the salt, but does this mean that my system's good for dead? Should a regeneration help?

Pull all of the salt out of the tank as best you can and add just one bag of pellets.
Put the softener in regeneration and see what happens.
I don't like to have more than 3 40 lb. bags of salt pellets in the tank at any time.

Let me know if that works for you, Kevin

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Re: A salty mess!

mmcmonster wrote:

My wife has been complaining about the hardness of the water for the last couple months, and I played around with the number of grains on my Ecosystems ERR 3000 R20 water softener, to no avail. I also noticed that it's been at least 6 months since I added salt to the softener, while I used to have to add a bag at least once every two months.

So I got some pails and emptied out most of the salt from the system, and it turns out that near the bottom the salt had solidified.

I'm at a loss of what to do next. I added some water to loosen it up, and will (slowly) remove most of the salt, but does this mean that my system's good for dead? Should a regeneration help?

Removing the salt by any means and then adding more good salt is a waste of time effort and money if your unit isn't going to use it....

Your softener is not adding water to the salt tank or not drawing it out during the slow rinse/brine draw position of a regeneration. I can't tell because you don't mention the water level in the tank.

Your Ecowater is a highly overpriced Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool or mortonsalt.com so...

Go to www.kenmorewater.com and view their troubleshooting and other animations. Then follow the instructions and you'll probably find the problem and may fix it without having to call for service.

Clean the injector, injector throat and injector screen; they are probably called the 'venturi' in an Ecowater and Ecowater built softener. Check the drain line is not blocked or kinked.

Solar crystal salt is much better than any type/brand of pellet type salt. It totally dissolves unlike pellets of sodium chloride or salt substitute potassium chloride and PC recrystallizes in the bottom of the tank.

Busting up the hard 'salt' and throwing it in the garbage, saving and reusing the pellets in the tank, is the best way to get rid of the rock hard build up in the bottom of the tank. Just don't bust the bottom of the tank or a false bottom called a salt grid or platform.

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Don't waste time and money with Solar crystal salt.
The Diamond Crystal salt pellets are best for ECOwater systems.

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I need some help with getting a water softener. I live in corona, ca and the water hardness is 18 according to the county. My concerns are the calcium deposits that causes white spots on glass and faucets.
My local sears has kenmore and homedepot LG. I also researched online and read that these aren't as durable as others rainsoft etc. The rep from rainsoft quoted like $3K and I am not spending that much. I saw some online - http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com and they were like under $700 delivered. Are the fleck ones any good? Also a local plumber wants $500 to install it. I am going to install in it the garage next to the main line and the guy wants like $200 just to connect the drain outlet to the main drain line.
Can't I connect it to the rainwater drain. I heard that if I use a different salt Pott. Chloride or something I can actually drain it over grass.

Any help would be appreciated.

-gluck

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Just say NO to RainSoft.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Just say NO to RainSoft.

Should I go with fleck or sears?

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gluck wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
Just say NO to RainSoft.

Should I go with fleck or sears?

Fleck, North Star and ECOwater are all good choices.

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Should I get this fleck 2510SE from http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com?
Are there any other retailers better than this one?

For installation: Is it something that I can do myself? I have never worked with copper pipes. How much do think a handyman or plumber should charge for installation?

Can I connect the drain pipe to the rainwater drain?
I heard that if I use a different salt Pottasium Chloride or something I can actually drain it over grass.

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Thanks, H2O_Man.

I cleaned out all the salt. I had to add water to the tank, to "melt" some of the solid salt, so I don't know how much water was at the bottom.

Now I'm going to add a bad or two of salt (I've been using Solar salt) and 6" of water and do a regenerate.

What should I expect when I do a regeneration? Should the salt level change?

One more question: I set the hardness to 5 grains. Is that okay? (I think I read that anything over 4 grains is considered hard, but making it very low uses salt a lot faster...)

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mmcmonster wrote:

Thanks, H2O_Man.

I cleaned out all the salt. I had to add water to the tank, to "melt" some of the solid salt, so I don't know how much water was at the bottom.

Now I'm going to add a bad or two of salt (I've been using Solar salt) and 6" of water and do a regenerate.

What should I expect when I do a regeneration? Should the salt level change?

One more question: I set the hardness to 5 grains. Is that okay? (I think I read that anything over 4 grains is considered hard, but making it very low uses salt a lot faster...)

You set the hardness at whatever your hardness is.

Leave the salt tank dry and empty. Put the system into regeneration and visually check to confirm the valve puts
water in and draws water out of the salt tank. If water moves both ways go ahead and add two backs of salt.
If no water moves in or out of the tank schedule a service call or try the trouble shooting guide posted earlier.

Good luck

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Why Not Rainsoft?
H20 Man (Or any others)....

Can you tell me why I should not buy a Rainsoft EC4 water conditioner. I had a sales rep out to my house last night and all of the tests he performed indicated the use of a conditioning system is highly recommended. Supposedly we have hard water that is rated at 10 Grains Hard.

He drew up a cost comparison between the use of our current water situation and with the use of their system (I believe it was a 3 tank system). Basically he determined that we used ~360 dollars a year on "wear and tear" due to our current water state and ~720 dollars a year on soaps, cleaners, laundry detergent, chemical cleaners, etc.) So basically it was a 1000 dollars a year....

The cost for the system (installed) was $6,450 dollars. This includes:
1.) Free Soap (all different kinds that would essentially replace all our current soap, cleaners, etc. for a year or so).
2.) First replacement of brine (or cabon, can't remember what he called it) in the QRS tank (wouldn't need replacing until after 3 years) - $60 to $70 dollar savings.
3.) First year replacement of salt. - $20 dollar savings.
4.) If we wanted to uninstall it and take it with us to a new house in the future (if we move) they'd do it for free - $500 dollar saving.

I've tried doing some research on this forum and over the web...didn't find much.

1.) Can anyone tell me if Consumer Reports does tests / reviews on water softeners? I couldn't find anything on their website (i'm a member).
2.) Is the $6,450 price insane or is that a good price on a system like this?
3.) Is there a benefit in using a three tank system over a single tank?
4.) Anyone have experiencing with Rainsoft's customer service / support? Are they good to deal with?
5.) Anyone have experience with Rainsoft's soap? Is it worth it or is it any good compared to store bought brands?

Thanks for your help.

Bill

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Softening hard water will deliver the following benefits, even people with only slightly hard water will notice a difference when they start using soft water.

* Water heating efficiencies may be increased by up to 29% with gas and 22% with electricity.
* Pipes don't clog due to mineral buildup increasing the plumbing systems life and performance.
* Soaps and detergents lather better and work more efficiently.
* Many appliances last longer, perform better and stay clean longer.
* Soap residue on clothes is reduced. Clothes look better and last longer.
* Soap scum and hard water spots are reduced - less time cleaning.
* Skin and hair rinse better for a cleaner look and feel. What a relief for dry itchy skin!

IMHO, ECOwater Softeners and Softeners with metered Fleck 2510SE control valves are best.
I recommend all interested parties avoid RainSoft products, they are not worth the price and customer service is terrible.

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Thanks H20 Man...does the 6,000 dollar price tag sound like it's too high, even for Rainsoft? How can I found out the price for the system you recommend.

Also - any reason why we would want a three tank system over a single tank?

Thanks

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flavarite wrote:

Thanks H20 Man...does the 6,000 dollar price tag sound like it's too high, even for Rainsoft? How can I found out the price for the system you recommend.

Also - any reason why we would want a three tank system over a single tank?

Thanks

Any $$ for a RainSoft system is too high.

Enter your zip code HERE to find your ECO PRO for a price quote.

I hope that helps, Kevin

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Water Softeners - What are the differences in brands?

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