Torture, It's What's For Breakfast (and Lunch and Supper)

@izzythepush,

Quote:

before long democracy will be dead and buried just like you want.

...and a good thing too...Democracy is mob rule. The USA is a Representative Republic where we dont legislate per the dictate of the ignorant masses...like YOU.

Like that crayon??

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

As any one who has been through training regarding interogation at the hands of the enemy (all military personnel) the first thing they tell you is not to lie or mke things up.

that's interesting

Baldimo, who we know is a U.S. military veteran, has just said the opposite

http://able2know.org/topic/261929-2#post-5837727

Quote:

I was a member of a Chinook Aircrew. There were briefings and training's I was part of that let me know what I would be subjected to. The secret is to know that you will break, that is a given. The other secret is to hold out as long as you can, give false info when you do break

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

What crime did Clinton commit that has a 30 year prison term?

Misfeasance, Manslaughter. He had an oportunity to recieve UBL into custody where he was detained in the middle east and he did not accept the prisoner. Result: 3000 dead.

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

It's nice that the "real Americans" don't believe in what America stands for.

How would you know what America stands for?

1 Reply

@giujohn,

Quote:

How would you know what America stands for?

An excellent question.

http://www.alien-earth.org/images/smileys/cheer.gif

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

Baldimo, who we know is a U.S. military veteran, has just said the opposite

I refer you to Article 5 of the Military Code of Conduct for American POWs...

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability.

Nowhere in basisc SERE training does it instruct you to lie.

1 Reply

@giujohn,

In full confession, I never attended SERE school. I got out prior to going to that oh so wonderful class.

On deployment we were instructed that lying with a mix of truth was a fair tactic. Instead of saying I had 12 Chinooks in my unit, to mix it up and say there were 30, as an example. The problem with interrogation and lying, is that you don't know what your interrogator knows. It is a gamble for sure. There are times in questioning when they already know the answers to some of the questions they will be asking.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

It is a gamble for sure. There are times in questioning when they already know the answers to some of the questions they will be asking.

Thank you. Thats EXACTLY the reason we were taught NOT to lie. We were taught the best policy was to calm up. Any thing you say can be twisted agaist you. If caught in a lie thay can say you are really a spy and dont qualify for rights under the Geneva Convention or some other ridiculous charge.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And without evidence? Well, even that can be in theory (I'm not aware of such).

Sure you are. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

a) that's in Italy. (You generalised "Europe" - I clearly was referring to above mentioned part of what is now Germany).
b) see above.

Italy is part of Europe.

And if the rest of Europe rejects Italy's atrocities, I wouldn't mind if they were a bit more vocal about it.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I disagree. I do not want the world to be a place where Americans are prosecuted for crimes while others are allowed to commit the very same crimes against us with impunity.

Torturing people to try to get information is not prosecuting them for their crimes. Surely you can see that.

I think you misunderstood my post.

Currently when Americans are tortured (as happened in WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, and Iraq-91) no one does a thing about it.

I am saying that no one should be prosecuting the cases where Americans are perpetrators unless they also prosecute the cases where Americans are victims.

parados wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Also, if we are to prosecute any Republicans, the first step needs to be a 30 year prison term for Bill Clinton. I object to holding Republicans to a higher standard than is applied to Democrats.

What crime did Clinton commit that has a 30 year prison term?

I am confident that Bill Clinton would easily be convicted of multiple counts of perjury, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice, were he to be prosecuted for his behavior when he was president.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I am confident that [Insert Most Any Presidents Name Here] would easily be convicted of multiple counts of perjury, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice, were he to be prosecuted for his behavior when he was president.

now your statement makes more sense

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

now your statement makes more sense

Nonsense. You're making it look like I am falsely accusing other presidents of committing the felonies that only Bill Clinton committed.

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@oralloy,

I rather take Clinton's "felonies" as you call them, then Bush's gross negligence and utter ignorance. He was a major contributor to the mortgage and bank meltdown that crippled the U.S. economically. The war with Iraq was/is a disaster. Bush o-ton: "we're done in 3 weeks!" Alone this showed how inexperienced, ignorant and irresponsible Bush was. Bush was the worst president in history!!

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@giujohn,

You say that's a crime? Care to quote the US Code that made it a crime? Refusing to take someone into custody is not a crime otherwise every police officer in the US would be in jail because they had contact with someone that later committed a crime. It's a good thing for you being an idiot is not a crime and instead is a requirement to be a police officer where you have worked.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

I am confident that Bill Clinton would easily be convicted of multiple counts of perjury, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice, were he to be prosecuted for his behavior when he was president.

I am still curious how you got to 30 years. None of crimes you listed come close to a 30 year sentence.

Even if we assume the 3 counts of perjury alleged by the House along with the other 2 and maximum sentence running consecutively, I only see 25 years possible for maximum sentence in most jurisdictions. In reality, the likelihood of getting a jury to agree to convict on charges that even some GOP Senators thought were unproven is nil.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

I rather take Clinton's "felonies" as you call them, then Bush's gross negligence and utter ignorance.

Bush was neither negligent nor ignorant. He merely did things that Democrats disagreed with.

More to the point, if you want to give a Democratic president a free pass to commit a string of felonies, then don't forget to give Bush a free pass on torture as well.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

I am still curious how you got to 30 years. None of crimes you listed come close to a 30 year sentence.
Even if we assume the 3 counts of perjury alleged by the House along with the other 2 and maximum sentence running consecutively, I only see 25 years possible for maximum sentence in most jurisdictions.

It was a guess based on what I thought the sentences would probably add up to.

25 years sounds good too.

parados wrote:

In reality, the likelihood of getting a jury to agree to convict on charges that even some GOP Senators thought were unproven is nil.

There might be a problem weeding out any jurors who feel that Democratic presidents should be above the law, but other than that I don't foresee a problem.

If there is any serious effort to prosecute members of the Bush Administration over torture, it'll be well worth it for the Republicans to attempt to prosecute Bill Clinton as well.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Bush was neither negligent nor ignorant.

This alone disqualifies you in my book. Good luck with polishing your blinders.

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

This alone disqualifies you in my book. Good luck with polishing your blinders.

Disqualifies me from what?

I'm not wearing any blinders. The fact that Bush did things that Democrats disagreed with does not make him stupid or ignorant.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

The fact that Bush did things that Democrats disagreed with does not make him stupid or ignorant.

A multi trillion dollar war that increased Iran's reach in the mid east and decreased ours does.

1 Reply

Torture, It's What's For Breakfast (and Lunch and Supper)

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