14
   

Obama's executive actions on immigration

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 11:42 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I'm simply stating that Obama never gave the new Congress a chance to work with him on anything.


Not quite, there were maybe 3 months at the beginning were he was doing meetings and having good people as his ambassadors on the Hill trying to get people together as the nations chief community organizer. I have not seen where the right people have written their books yet so IDK but what I think happened was that it was quickly apparent in the meetings that he is a prick and that to him the meetings were proforma were after having enough open mic time everyone was to agree to carry out his plans.

The R's for very good reason said "**** you" to that and have been blamed everyday since for the breakdown because the american people cant bring themselves to believing that a black guy who is very lucky to have his job is such an incompetent prick.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 11:53 am
@hawkeye10,
Are you talking about the 2014 election cycle? The new Congress was elected on Nov 4th, he signed his EO/EA on Nov 20th. That was less than 3 weeks after the election and 2 months before the new Congress, actually the new Senate since the House was already a GOP majority, even took their oaths of office. 3 weeks is not enough time to even begin to sit down and talk about changes to immigration law.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 11:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
No. Brooks says no such thing. He merely says the WH was not privy to GOP discussions. He never once says what the specifics of those discussions were or that legislation was imminent.

He says that the moderates were getting ready to act on immigration reform, and that Mr. Obama's executive order cut off the moderates before they could act.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 11:58 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
yuppers
nothing

Nothing because Mr. Obama cut off the moderates before they had a chance to act.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 11:59 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Oralloy claimed there was legislation about to be introduced when Obama issued the EO. You are telling us no such legislation would be introduced for at least 2 months and probably longer. It seems you agree with me that no legislation was about to be introduced and passed.

The Republicans did not gain control over the Senate until January.

The fact that Mr. Obama preceded this by two months does not change the fact that it cut off the efforts by the moderates to introduce legislation.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:02 pm
@oralloy,
Could you give us the quote from Brooks that says that?
parados
 
  4  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:04 pm
@oralloy,
OMg.. the GOP was prevented from introduction legislation 3 years from now!!!

Your claim was they were about to introduce legislation at the time Obama did something. If you want to move the goal posts at least have the honesty to retract your initial statement.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Are you talking about the 2014 election cycle
No I am saying the first months of being president Obama did try to at least consult with Congress, and I am also saying that ever since Obama has had poor relations with Congress both D and R because in his mind those were consultations and in their minds they were work sessions of collaboration.

Not sure this has anything to do with this thread just when someone says that Obama has never worked with Congress we need to point out that the first few months might have been an exception, but that I dont think so.

Picking nits they call this. But it is important in understanding why Obama was not able to get much done. It was a good deal his own fault.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:06 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
If the executive order goes down in flames, it might even give Mr. Obama an opportunity to rebuild the bridges that he burned when he issued the executive order, and maybe then he could work with the Republicans to get reform passed while he is still in office. Maybe.

I'm guessing this was wishful thinking on my part. If the Left is not even willing to acknowledge that there are moderate senators willing to work with them on immigration, probably not much hope of them rebuilding bridges with those moderates.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:10 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
If the Left is not even willing to acknowledge that there are moderate senators willing to work with them on immigration, probably not much hope of them rebuilding bridges with those moderates.


Fewer and fewer all the time. We are an increasingly polarized nation which has resulted in Congress being increasingly polarized.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:15 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Could you give us the quote from Brooks that says that?

"This move would also make it much less likely that we’ll have immigration reform anytime soon. White House officials are often misinformed on what Republicans are privately discussing, so they don’t understand that many in the Republican Party are trying to find a way to get immigration reform out of the way. This executive order would destroy their efforts."
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:17 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
OMg.. the GOP was prevented from introduction legislation 3 years from now!!!

No. Once Mr. Obama leaves office the Republicans will likely try introducing immigration reform legislation again.

I had thought that, if this executive order is ultimately struck down by the courts, it would be an opportunity for Mr. Obama to rebuild the bridges he burnt, and maybe he would get immigration reform passed after all.

However it seems clear now that the Left has no interest in rebuilding bridges to any moderates, so it looks like nothing will get done until after Mr. Obama leaves office.


parados wrote:
Your claim was they were about to introduce legislation at the time Obama did something. If you want to move the goal posts at least have the honesty to retract your initial statement.

No goal posts have been moved. Moderate senators were going to introduce legislation when the GOP took control over the Senate, but Mr. Obama undercut them before they had a chance to act.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:18 pm
@oralloy,
If the right is not willing to even pull their head out of oralloy's butt then there is probably not much hope in pointing out his argument about the "Left" is a red herring when it comes to whether the GOP was about to introduce legislation. There is no evidence that the GOP was about to introduce legislation let alone pass it.

The Left hasn't said that there is no one in the GOP willing to work on immigration. Reality points to the far right having more say than the moderates and the leadership not being willing to buck those on the far right. The Hastert rule will likely prevent any vote in the House on immigration reform the Democrats would vote for.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
The only reason he worked with that Congress was because the Dems had the majority until the 2010 elections when the Dems lost the House. The first 2 years of Obama's first term had a Dem majority in both the Senate and The House. Before Parados or someone else tries to squirm out of this, I'm not saying they had a super majority, I'm saying they held the majority for those 2 years, and more than 50% is the majority.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:19 pm
@oralloy,
as my late mother would have said, you've got quite an imagination
parados
 
  4  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:19 pm
@oralloy,
That is Brooks opining about the possibility of future legislation. It says nothing about how far the GOP was in producing the legislation at that time.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:22 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:

No. Once Mr. Obama leaves office the Republicans will likely try introducing immigration reform legislation again.


Again? Do you know what that word means? There was no first attempt to introduce immigration reform legislation.


Quote:

No goal posts have been moved. Moderate senators were going to introduce legislation when the GOP took control over the Senate,

Clearly the goal posts were moved. You are now saying the GOP was going to introduce legislation months in the future from when Obama issued the EO.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:31 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
as my late mother would have said, you've got quite an imagination

Pointing out facts doesn't really involve much in the way of imagination.

Anyway, like I said to Parados a page back:

"Thank you for the complement. I am not sure that it is deserved though. My intellect does allow my imagination to go places that most other people do not, but true creativity is beyond my abilities.

For example, I could never write a song or a poem, or paint a picture (or anything similar) if my life depended on it."
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:32 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
That is Brooks opining about the possibility of future legislation. It says nothing about how far the GOP was in producing the legislation at that time.

It's not as if a bill takes decades to write. They could write their proposals in a single day, then start talking with the White House over what changes they wanted to make.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2015 12:36 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Again? Do you know what that word means? There was no first attempt to introduce immigration reform legislation.

The first attempt was this January (2015). The attempt failed because it was undercut by Mr. Obama's executive order.

After Mr. Obama leaves office the Republicans will try again.


parados wrote:
Clearly the goal posts were moved. You are now saying the GOP was going to introduce legislation months in the future from when Obama issued the EO.

Moderate senators were planning to address the issue when they took control over the Senate. They were undercut by the executive order.
 

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