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Obama's executive actions on immigration

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 05:46 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I am white and I vote. And I strongly support this executive action.

You're a partisan extremist. You'll support any act that undermines moderates and makes political compromise impossible.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 05:50 am
@Brandon9000,
You are using a straw man. Everybody knows the president has limits to what he can order.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 05:52 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
My point is that the Congress makes laws, not the executive. There must be some limitation for what the president can do by executive order. What happened to the separation of powers? Can the president now make any law he wants by fiat when the Congress doesn't do what he asks?

I'm assuming that this will be challenged in court.

I really have no idea on the question of whether this is "going too far" or not. But I'm sure, once this gets to the higher level courts, that the judges will base their rulings on reasonable arguments.

I'm questioning why Mr. Obama deliberately screwed over the moderates who were just preparing to pass immigration legislation.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 05:55 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

You are using a straw man. Everybody knows the president has limits to what he can order.

No, I'm not using a straw man. I am responding to glitterbag's comment:

Quote:
If Congress refuses to act, the President has to act....


which makes it sound as though the president can create any law that he wishes Congress had created. Now, since there is a limit to the type of executive orders the president can give, the next question is whether the president can give the one(s) he described last night, ordering that laws on the books not be enforced. The question after that is, if the president gives a valid executive order contrary to the will of Congress, what remedies do they have available?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 06:18 am
@Brandon9000,
You know good and well she referred to specific instances and not everything congress does - or refuses to do.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 06:38 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
How is it racist to want people who entered the country illegally, deported back to their own countries? I'd love to hear your tortured logic on that.


Brandon. Please explain to me why you think racists wouldn't want people deported?
The tortured logic is yours.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 06:42 am
@Brandon9000,
The president didn't pass a law.

There are very big limitations on what the president can do by executive order. This order is rather limited. He couldn't give them a pathway to citizenship. He couldn't help everyone. And this protected status only lasts 2 years.

Congress still needs to act to come up with a permanent solution.


0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 06:47 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
I am white and I vote. And I strongly support this executive action.

You're a partisan extremist. You'll support any act that undermines moderates and makes political compromise impossible.


Hmmm Oralloy, what are you talking about?

I think I am pretty open to a reasonable compromise on immigration. The obvious compromise would be border security in exchange for an amnesty for some proportion of the people already in the country. I can meet in the middle.

How would you compromise?
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 06:58 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
the moderates who were just preparing to pass immigration legislation.


hopefully they'll finally make a move on that

it's only been a couple of decades
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 09:20 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Hmmm Oralloy, what are you talking about?

I'm talking about the fact that there had been moderate Republicans preparing to pass immigration reform when the Republicans took over Congress.

Now, instead of the hoped-for compromise, there is just going to be more of the same gridlock for the next two years.


maxdancona wrote:
I think I am pretty open to a reasonable compromise on immigration. The obvious compromise would be border security in exchange for an amnesty for some proportion of the people already in the country. I can meet in the middle.
How would you compromise?

Beats me. Immigration is not an issue I care a lot about.

I just regret the fact that Mr. Obama has again stomped all over the moderates who were preparing to compromise with him.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 09:22 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
hopefully they'll finally make a move on that

It's not going to happen now. We're headed for two more years of gridlock.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 09:22 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Mr. Obama has again stomped all over the moderates who were preparing to compromise with him.


That is funny, Oralloy. Sometimes I forget that you aren't serious.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 09:29 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
That is funny, Oralloy. Sometimes I forget that you aren't serious.

I'm always serious.

You've defeated the moderates again. Enjoy your partisan warfare.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 09:35 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
That is funny, Oralloy. Sometimes I forget that you aren't serious.

I'm always serious.

You've defeated the moderates again. Enjoy your partisan warfare.


Let's just hope the moderates don't shut down the government again.

(I really like you Oralloy. You make me laugh.)
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:38 am

Quote:
Liberals Invoking Cesar Chavez Ignore His Hatred Of Illegal Immigrants.

Never expect the whole truth from progressives.
Quote:
Chavez believed that the campaign would help his supporters explain to the public why the boycott against grapes and lettuce wasn’t effective: Farmers were hiring illegal workers who didn’t care about the strikes or boycott.

A favorite line of Chavez’s was, “If we can get the illegals out of California, we will win the strike .”

Obama and his allies want it both ways: they want to use the name of Cesar Chavez to promote their immigration policies but their policies are 180 degrees away from anything that Chavez himself wanted. It’s cynical manipulation that hopes the audience is too ignorant of Chavez to call them on it.

More importantly than mere hypocrisy, however, is the substance of the issue: Obama’s policy is going to hurt workers and job seekers. He’s changed immigration policy at the expense of working Americans.

http://rebelpundit.com/democrats-invoking-cesar-chavez-ignore-his-hatred-of-illegal-immigrants/
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:46 am
Quote:
Sheriffs: Obama Amnesty Is ‘Destruction of Our Democracy,’ ‘Gaping Hole’ for Terrorists


The border has to be secured. These are people on the front line. That this is ignored by Obama shows his contempt for this nation and its citizens.
Quote:
Sheriff Chuck Jenkins, Frederick County, Maryland:

“In my opinion, based on what I’ve seen, every county in America will become a border county. This is absolutely going to worsen the crisis.

What we’re going to see is not only the cost to healthcare, social programs, and education, but the increase in criminals coming into our country, you’re going to see increases in crime, infiltration from transnational gangs, the drug trade and human tracking.”

Sheriff Paul Babeu, Pinal County, Arizona:

“The law applies to you and I as citizens, and yet it appears there is no law when it comes to illegals. The message the President’s action will send is this: if you can get to the border, you’re home free. It completely undermines the rule of law and makes the job of every law enforcement officer – which is already difficult – impossible.

We already have our hands full because the border is not secure: imagine what the situation will look like when the President gives executive amnesty to those already here. It would unleash a tidal wave of illegal border crossings, overwhelming law enforcement. It will be open season for the cartels. Again: the border is not secure now – to give a presidential amnesty would be to make matters dramatically worse for our officers who are trying to do the job the President won’t.”

Sheriff Tom Hodgson, Bristol County, Massachusetts:

“It will dramatically increase the draw for illegal immigrants to come into our country, because you have the President of the United States sending out a message that we have no problem with people ignoring our immigration laws. They’re looking for a wink and nod that says ‘yeah, come on in’ – we’ve seen it with the DACA. It is the worst message you can possibly send. Come in, don’t worry about the laws, don’t wait your turn. You invite people to ignore our laws. We have no knowledge of these individuals’ background or criminal histories. We [have] minors coming in right now who have confessed to murder. We in these communities are left trying to find out: who are these people? If didn’t learn anything else post-9/11, it’s that we need to know who is in our communities and what they’re purpose is. The President’s planned order is a formula for national disaster and public safety.

Every predator who is out to commit crimes is looking for the weakest link in our system. Having large illegal immigrant populations creates a safe haven for criminal activity. Criminals are becoming more emboldened.

I run the homeland security task force in Bristol County. When you start diverting resources with in ICE – this administration has been watering down investigative resources, failing to deport people who need to be deported – you create a very dangerous situation. When the President issues this executive amnesty, you’re going to see people being diverted away from investigating terror threats and towards issuing this amnesty. It’s going to put our communities at much greater risk. The scary part about all of this is that we know that terrorists have been trying to infiltrate the US. It’s opening a gaping hole for terrorists to walk right into the country and strike at innocent people.

When the President of the United States is sending a message that he’s not concerned with lawbreaking, those words are the beginning of the destruction of our Democracy. When you have the President saying you can come in unlawfully without consequence, basically the President is saying to do the world: don’t respect our laws. That’s I worry about: if you don’t protect the framework of Democracy, then you risk losing Democracy itself.”

Sheriff Eddie Guerra, Hidalgo County, Texas:

“We are going to see what I’m seeing here on the border in larger and large numbers, which is a huge increase in illegal immigration coming across our border. An amnesty order is going to create more people an incentive to come into the US. The drug cartel will exploit any opportunity to come into the United States, and this will create the cover for them to continue exploiting our porous border. This will create the opportunity for kidnapping, trafficking, sexual abuse, prostitution, and smuggling. These smugglers have no regard for human life. They destroy private property. They have no respect for law enforcement. They circumvent US checkpoints. It’s a terrible situation.”

Sheriff Sam Page, Rockingham County, North Carolina:

“Human trafficking, drug trafficking and criminal activity are coming through our borders, but not staying near our borders – it’s getting into every part of the United States. This is a public safety issue – a terrorist or any other kind of criminal may cross our borders. We just don’t know who is coming across.

“If the President issue his executive amnesty, you’ll see a dramatic surge of people coming in from all countries, including Central America– and again we won’t know who’s coming in: gangs, drugs, cartels, public health threats, human trafficking. We’re not catching but a small percentage of those coming across. This will place public safety in our communities in danger, and taxpaying citizens will be left picking up the tab.”


http://www.mrctv.org/blog/sheriffs-obama-amnesty-destruction-our-democracy-gaping-hole-terrorists


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 11:01 am
@coldjoint,
Thanks Coldjoint. These guys' opinions should front and center of the political debate. In fact Democratic candidates are hoping that is the case.

You notice that the Republican establishment, the people who care about winning elections, who are trying to shut people like Paul Babeu up? Hillary Clinton loves the guy. She might very well send him a Christmas card.


coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 11:05 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You notice that the Republican establishment, the people who care about winning elections, who are trying to shut people like Paul Babeu up?


No. I have not noticed. And Killary is old news.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 11:11 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Let's just hope the moderates don't shut down the government again.

As always, if the government is shut down, it will not be due to the moderates, but due to the extremists on both sides. You and Mr. Obama are among those extremists.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2014 11:17 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
Let's just hope the moderates don't shut down the government again.

As always, if the government is shut down, it will not be due to the moderates, but due to the extremists on both sides. You and Mr. Obama are among those extremists.


You are absolutely right. We are the extremists. Now please excuse me, I have work to do now. Destroying democracy to hand over the country to Spanish speaking invaders isn't as easy as it sounds.
0 Replies
 
 

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