23
   

Who doesn't think American voters are stupid?

 
 
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 08:48 am
Some political hack is getting press for having the guts to say the truth that American voters are stupid. Is there anyone here, or anywhere else, who doesn't believe this to be true?

The CNN outrage is making me laugh.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Question • Score: 23 • Views: 7,109 • Replies: 114

 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 11:35 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Some political hack is getting press for having the guts to say the truth that American voters are stupid. Is there anyone here, or anywhere else, who doesn't believe this to be true?


That political hack is Obama.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 11:53 am
You don't really want major government consultants who had a big hand in crafting a monumental new program which everyone is compelled to participate in laughing about how stupid the people are. Such a person should not be consulted by the peoples' representatives anymore. Our political system is based on the idea that ordinary people are fit to govern themselves.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 12:16 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Some political hack is getting press for having the guts to say the truth that American voters are stupid. Is there anyone here, or anywhere else, who doesn't believe this to be true?


That political hack is Obama.


Factually it was Jonathan Gruber.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 12:20 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
You don't really want major government consultants who had a big hand in crafting a monumental new program which everyone is compelled to participate in laughing about how stupid the people are.


Why not? There is a difference between a politician and a consultant. A politician has to pretend that everyone is smart. A politician can't say the truth or he would never get a elected.

A consultant's job is to get things done. They should be focused on reality. The mistake here is that people whose job is based on telling the truth should be kept from the public.

Quote:
Our political system is based on the idea that ordinary people are fit to govern themselves.


I don't believe that this is true. If it were, we would have a big problem.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 06:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
You don't really want major government consultants who had a big hand in crafting a monumental new program which everyone is compelled to participate in laughing about how stupid the people are.


Why not? There is a difference between a politician and a consultant. A politician has to pretend that everyone is smart. A politician can't say the truth or he would never get a elected.

A consultant's job is to get things done. They should be focused on reality. The mistake here is that people whose job is based on telling the truth should be kept from the public.

Everyone knows that intelligence and ability are distributed statistically, however, just as one doesn't want elected members of government stating that the people whom they represent are stupid, one also doesn't want their primary employees who designed systems all people are compelled to use, laughing about it. If they are caught doing so, they shouldn't be employed in such a capacity again. If you disagree, you disagree, but that's what I think.

maxdancona wrote:
Quote:
Our political system is based on the idea that ordinary people are fit to govern themselves.


I don't believe that this is true. If it were, we would have a big problem.

The United States was created at a time when most large countries were ruled by monarchs. For the people to be allowed to choose temporary administrators, based on what they believed those people would do, was an innovation. Many British aristocrats declared that the common people would never succeed in governing themselves because they were naturally inferior. The system of representative democracy in this country is based on the idea that people are capable of selecting temporary administrators who represent their own beliefs about how the country should be governed. That's what a democratic republic means.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 06:40 pm
Are you a voter, Max?

Do you think you are stupid?

I am a voter...and I do not think I am stupid. Almost all my friends are voters...and I do not think of any of them as stupid. Everyone in my family (except for those too young to vote) are voters...and I do not think of any of them as stupid.

Most of the people on A2K are voters...and I do not think of many of them as stupid.



So I guess the answer to your question is: I do not!
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 06:44 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
one also doesn't want their primary employees who designed systems all people are compelled to use, laughing about it.


Why? Anyone with any intelligence knows that Obamacare is a ridiculous piece of political hackery. We have it because it is better than the only other politically viable alternative. But, no one thinks it is a smart healthcare policy.

Whose fault is it, if not the American voter, for this political ridiculousness? I think that any intelligent person sees the humor in this.

Quote:
The United States was created at a time when most large countries were ruled by monarchs. For the people to be allowed to choose temporary administrators, based on what they believed those people would do, was an innovation.


You don't know your history very well. Have you heard of the "electoral college"? Guess why the electoral college was thought up by our founding fathers.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 06:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,

American voters, as a whole, are quite stupid. I have no problem saying this with confidence. There may be exceptions, but as a whole, we are clearly idiots.

The elections each year are decided by slick 30 second commercials. Every election there are hundreds of millions of dollars spent on these spots with the most simplistic, logically tortured, rational for why we should vote for one of two parties. Why do both sides spend so much money on these spots?

Because they work. Americans choose leaders and policies based on bumper sticker slogans.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 06:59 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Frank,

American voters, as a whole, are quite stupid. I have no problem saying this with confidence. There may be exceptions, but as a whole, we are clearly idiots.

The elections each year are decided by slick 30 second commercials. Every election there are hundreds of millions of dollars spent on these spots with the most simplistic, logically tortured, rational for why we should vote for one of two parties. Why do both sides spend so much money on these spots?

Because they work. Americans choose leaders and policies based on bumper sticker slogans.


Max, I think you are all wet on this.

You asked a question...and I answered it. But you seem to be insisting that you KNOW (with confidence!) that American voters are quite stupid.

I think you are dead wrong. My guess is that the overwhelming majority of voters are far from stupid.

The problem, as I see it, is not stupidity with the electorate. I suspect the problem is that we who love democracy think that because we can elect the people who will govern us...that process will produce a governing body that will take care of the myriad of problems that impact on life in a democracy.

That expectation is an absurdity. I doubt it ever will be realized.

But if you are determined to consider yourself, me, all our friends and family and acquaintances...and all the other people who vote in America to be stupid...I doubt I will be able to change your mind.

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Explain this to me Frank...

If the American voters were intelligent, then the successful politicians would be the ones who presented in depths, substantive arguments with nuance. An intelligent politician would be able to discuss both sides of an issue and to present the pros and cons to take a well-reasoned position.

Why don't we see this happening, Frank?

What we have is character attacks, bumper sticker slogans, ridiculously expensive 30 second campaign ads and half-truths.

Our politics are run like this because this is what the American voter responds to. American voters aren't given nuanced reasoned arguments because they don't want reasoned nuanced arguments. Intelligent arguments lose elections. The American voter punishes nuance in the harshest way.

This coming election (like the ones before it) will be fought with slogans, "War on Women", "Don't take our guns", "Tax and Spend", "America is a country of immigrants".

This is what people will vote on... slogans. Most Americans will never understand the policies behind them in any real way. They will never hear the reasons from more than one side. They will never have a nuanced discussion or listen to any explanation of either side that takes more than a minute.

Americans could be intelligent and informed, but they choose choose not to be.


maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The irony is CNN.

As CNN is complaining about the comment that Americans are stupid, stories about Amanda Bynes and the Kim Kardashian's buttocks are prominently featured while the story about the G20 summit confronting Putin is buried so far down you have to scroll to find it.

CNN clearly doesn't think much of the intelligence of their own readers.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
The United States was created at a time when most large countries were ruled by monarchs. For the people to be allowed to choose temporary administrators, based on what they believed those people would do, was an innovation.


You don't know your history very well. Have you heard of the "electoral college"? Guess why the electoral college was thought up by our founding fathers.

First of all, Congress and the governors are elected by direct vote. The use of the electoral college for the president and vice president was based on interstate considerations. The intention was still to have a government chosen essentially by the people at a time when the world was ruled by monarchs. Our system of government is based on the idea that the people are fit to rule themselves, rather than being ruled by just the so called "superior" people.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:29 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Explain this to me Frank...

If the American voters were intelligent, then the successful politicians would be the ones who presented in depths, substantive arguments with nuance. An intelligent politician would be able to discuss both sides of an issue and to present the pros and cons to take a well-reasoned position.

Why don't we see this happening, Frank?

What we have is character attacks, bumper sticker slogans, ridiculously expensive 30 second campaign ads and half-truths.

Our politics are run like this because this is what the American voter responds to. American voters aren't given nuanced reasoned arguments because they don't want reasoned nuanced arguments. Intelligent arguments lose elections. The American voter punishes nuance in the harshest way.

This coming election (like the ones before it) will be fought with slogans, "War on Women", "Don't take our guns", "Tax and Spend", "America is a country of immigrants".

This is what people will vote on... slogans. Most Americans will never understand the policies behind them in any real way. They will never hear the reasons from more than one side. They will never have a nuanced discussion or listen to any explanation of either side that takes more than a minute.

Americans could be intelligent and informed, but they choose choose not to be.


Max, you are out of control on this issue.

The electorate of America is very, very split on what should be done to make America a better place for everyone. Some people passionately think very conservative candidates have a more realistic chance to improve the condition of the country...and some people are just as passionate in thinking that very liberal candidates are a better bet.

The elected officials reflect those differences. The fact that elected officiasls have trouble compromising seems to reflect those differences more than the supposed stupidity of the electorate does...in my estimation.

You have decided that the reason for the problems we have with government is attributable to the stupidity of the electorate.

I consider that simplistic...and I suspect nothing is going to change your mind.

I'll monitor this thread...and comment from time to time.

Others may comment on some of your questions...and if I agree or disagree with them, I will respond to them.

In the meantime, I am not stupid...and I am a voter. I personally know many voters...and there is not a single one of them that I consider stupid. So...I have to disagree with your thesis.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:35 pm
I haven't been following this, but I want to address the question. Despite the fact that I hate the way so many elections turn out, I don't consider the voters stupid. Too many get swept in the herd mentality, which causes them to suspend logic, it seems. But, that's not the same as being dummies. But, herd mentality brings them from one position to another as the wind changes direction. I have not got a degree in mass psychology, but I don't need one to see this.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You completely sidestepped the key point I am making. This has nothing to do with compromise (and I agree with you about the divided electorate). The issue is ignorance. The fact is that the average American gets swayed by slogans and TV ads to have strong opinions about things they know nothing about.

You have conveniently sidestepped the main point.

Why isn't any successful politician on either side making an intelligent, nuanced argument on any issue? Why do they spend more far more money (hundreds of millions of dollars) on 30 second TV ads than they do on policy papers and forums.

Maybe you have particularly smart friends, Frank. The average American is perfectly happy to express the strongest opinion on important policy issues without making to slightest effort to be informed.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 07:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
Edgar,

Do you agree that American voters act stupidly? Maybe I just worded this wrong.

People vote to cut taxes and then complain about schools having large classes and cutting sports programs. Voters certainly don't act intelligently.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 09:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You completely sidestepped the key point I am making. This has nothing to do with compromise (and I agree with you about the divided electorate). The issue is ignorance. The fact is that the average American gets swayed by slogans and TV ads to have strong opinions about things they know nothing about.

You have conveniently sidestepped the main point.

Why isn't any successful politician on either side making an intelligent, nuanced argument on any issue? Why do they spend more far more money (hundreds of millions of dollars) on 30 second TV ads than they do on policy papers and forums.

Maybe you have particularly smart friends, Frank. The average American is perfectly happy to express the strongest opinion on important policy issues without making to slightest effort to be informed.


YOU completely sidestepped my earlier two questions, Max, the answers to which might put this entire issue into better perspective.

Let me repeat them:

Are you a voter, Max?

Do you think you are stupid?

I think I will add a third:

Since I dare to presume you are an intelligent, informed voter, do you think if everyone had voted exactly the way you did...everything would be fine?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 09:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You know what, Frank. He might think voters are stupid because Obama got elected twice. That is a pretty good reason.
Moment-in-Time
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 09:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Some political hack is getting press for having the guts to say the truth that American voters are stupid. Is there anyone here, or anywhere else, who doesn't believe this to be true?


There's no doubt about it a large majority of Americans are not as aware as they should be, and yes, "stupid" might very well apply in many cases; however, this occurs in most societies. America's society is complex, with many families holding down two jobs, buying a home, paying off mortgages, paying insurance for more than two cars, working to put their children through college, trying to keep up with the Jones, etc. The lack of knowledge regarding current events among average Americans do not surprise me but the level of low information political officials who hold congressional positions is startling. There is a Congressman on the Science Committee who believe the earth is only 7000 years old. They deny climate change, and think raising the minimum wage will cause the loss of jobs, etc. Admittedly, many are playing to their base, but there are those rightwing politicians devoid of a decent education who are simply an embarrassment.


The imbalance of mental incompetence we see in our government is mind-boggling! And these are the people voted into office to lead our country, to make decisions on behalf of the American people.

One of the main problems might be that politicians play to people's biases, making them feel good regarding their prejudices, instead of broadening their mental horizons.

To return to your original question, it is amazing how unenlightened many Americans are. Foreign students coming to American schools are more aware of the US constitution than many Americans.

Nite
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Who doesn't think American voters are stupid?
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 08/02/2021 at 03:10:20