23
   

Who doesn't think American voters are stupid?

 
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You are correct Frank. There is a big difference in stupidity and being brainwashed. But the result seems to be the same. The voters fuked themselves again.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I will answer your questions Frank. I think they are irrelevant... you are making a logical error. Saying that American voters as a group are stupid is not the same as saying that every single individual in that group is stupid.

But I will answer your questions anyway.

1) Yes I am a voter.

2) No, I don't think I personally am stupid (although I do now regret my initial vote for Obama which in hindsight wasn't too bright).

3) The issue is not whether people vote my way or not.

The issue is whether people take the time to understand both sides of an issue in some depth before making a reasoned decision. Most Americans make shallow emotional decisions without much thought based on 30 second commercials.

The initial quote was about Obamacare. It is a fact that the vast majority of the people with passionate opinions about Obamacare, have no real idea of what they are talking about. They are spouting the party lines they have been fed.

How do I know this is true? Well, just listen to what they are saying.

There is no rational honest discussion about the real issues surrounding healthcare in this country-- not from the politicians and not from the press. The American public wants slogans and sound bites rather than real information. In my opinion, that makes the stupid.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:24 pm
@maxdancona,
You wrote,
Quote:
People vote to cut taxes and then complain about schools having large classes and cutting sports programs. Voters certainly don't act intelligently.


I'd like to peggy-back on this theme. The people complain about high taxes and not having jobs, then vote for the very people who increases our national debt, cuts funding for our infrastructure and schools, and will not approve an increase in the minimum wage. I'm not sure if we can call the voters stupid, but I believe it's something akin to idiocy.

I don't see anything rational about the American voters. Maybe, the GOP win of congress will prove me wrong. I hope so.

This congress is already rated the worst in history at 13% approval rating. And guess who rated them this low? LOL
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
This congress is already rated the worst in history at 13% approval rating. And guess who rated them this low? LOL


Exacly right CI (for those who don't get the joke, that would be the people who elected them).
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I'd like to peggy-back on this theme.


Peggy who? And remember you don't vote, but you are stupid.http://www.alien-earth.org/images/smileys/headbang.gif
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 11:09 pm
The average voter doesn't actually vote. Last election only 36.6% of eligible voters voters. So, average voters don't vote and I don't think that the few that do vote are stupid at all. They may be wrong in my opinion, but not necessarily stupid.

Now, the average American in general is pretty stupid. Not very informed about politics or what is happening in the world. I wish they couldn't vote...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 11:22 pm
@McGentrix,
Your post is a contradiction on its own. Try to figure out why.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 03:44 am
I don't think that American voters are stupid. I do, however, think that anyone, anywhere at any time who attempts to characterize more than a hundred million people as being identically this or that is pretty damned stupid.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 05:10 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:

There's no doubt about it a large majority of Americans are not as aware as they should be, and yes, "stupid" might very well apply in many cases;


Allow me to expound on the phrase "Americans are stupid." A) The average middle class American is quite busy, some holding down two jobs, especially to put their children through college which is quite expensive even with some government grants. So busy in fact are they that often they don't pay particular attention to midterm local elections, and this cuts across both parties; however,the Republicans have seized on this traditional weakness, off-year voting pattern, with a vengeance, motivating their base with emphasis on their most hated target, President Barack Obama, and using this as a way of getting control of local elections, along with the gerrymandering of districts, i.e. manipulating the boundaries of an electoral constituency; newly enacted voter repression state laws, and the stealing of many Democrats' registration applications. The greatest voter fraud exist among the GOP because they realize their policies are so abhorrent to the majority of Americans they have to steal in order to win....they realize they don't stand much of a chance in today's presidential elections when the common people turn out en masse to vote. If the average Democratic voter were to concentrate on the local levels in each state the outcome in the electorate would be vastly different.

The noun "Stupidity" has taken its place along with "fool," "idiot," "dumb," "moron," and related concepts as a pejorative appellation for human misdeeds, whether purposeful, or accidental.

The adjective "Stupid" implies a lack of intelligence, understanding, reason, wit or sense. ... It can either imply a congenital lack of capacity for reasoning, or a temporary state of numbness. All of which does not apply to the "AVERAGE" American.

B) The word "stupid" might very well apply primarily to those red states where "some" *non-AVERAGE* residents claim the president of the US was born in Kenya, or go to any length to attack him verbally, or carry protest posters of a crude caricature of him with a bone through his nose; or who oppose him simply because he is who he is. I'm sure President Obama, being the first black president of the US must have expected opposition but I'm sure no one expected such blatant hostile resistance and unbridled racism as he has and is currently enduring amidst the "fabrication" of lies told against this president to such an extent many impressionable people believe such to be the case. To me these attacks are the ultimate in stupidity stemming from Americans who are destitute of knowledge and are fundamentally illiterate, acting out of emotional fear and hatred for their black brother.

An example of what a segment of very stupid Americans are capable of is represented by an a2k poster who began a thread regarding the use of the "N" word which is particularly deeply offensive to African Americans but also to morally decent abiding people everywhere. If the poster were to use that word in a predominantly black residential setting, he might find himself dead before his god got the message. Incidentally, we are also taught to never use the word "Jap" for it is a contemptuous term used to refer to a Japanese, or "Oriental" when discussing Chinese people....We should use the word "Asian" or simply Chinese.

That the poster pretended to not realize the depth of his words when defending his use of the slave master's "N" word stemming from before the Antebellum South is a mockery to all readers of his thread. The poster was hoping to actualize validation for his racism by using this hideously defamatory word; he wanted words of assurance that the use of the N word was all right! If the poster still feigns innocence by his use of the "N" word then he should return to his backwoods or other remote areas of his community* for there is simply no room for Skin-head crap here or perhaps he's the Grand Dragon of the KKK and speaking for them. ....trying to make that filfth respectable, too! We never know to whom we are responding on these forums except by the "outer garments they are wearing" then, we sometime realize a poster isn't all he/she's chalked up to be.
_____________
*A human being is a biological creature from birth but is from then on shaped as a person through social influences (upbringing/socialization). Racism is a social construct and is most visibly pronounced among people who have been brought up in a close-knit or homogeneous community or parents who passed their racial discrimination on to the offspring or individuals who are extraordinarily insecure people with a very strong need to feel superior by looking down on others in order to build up their own self esteem.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 05:51 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

You know what, Frank. He might think voters are stupid because Obama got elected twice. That is a pretty good reason.


I agree with you, cj...that might be the reason he thinks so. But that would not make American voters stupid...any more than having elected Romney would have.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 06:15 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I will answer your questions Frank. I think they are irrelevant... you are making a logical error. Saying that American voters as a group are stupid is not the same as saying that every single individual in that group is stupid.

But I will answer your questions anyway.

1) Yes I am a voter.

2) No, I don't think I personally am stupid (although I do now regret my initial vote for Obama which in hindsight wasn't too bright).

3) The issue is not whether people vote my way or not.

The issue is whether people take the time to understand both sides of an issue in some depth before making a reasoned decision. Most Americans make shallow emotional decisions without much thought based on 30 second commercials.




Okay...so what you are saying is that some people who are voters are stupid...and some people who are voters are not necessarily stupid, but are not especially well informed.

Wow.

Okay...I can agree with that. But that is a far cry from what your thread question asks and infers...and from what your original comments suggest.

The thread could just as easily have been titled, "Some voters are brilliant and very well informed."

Oh, by the way, some people who vote also favor vanilla ice cream over chocolate. Do you think that an interesting subject for a thread purporting to be a serious one!


Quote:
The initial quote was about Obamacare.


It was???

Where?


Quote:
It is a fact that the vast majority of the people with passionate opinions about Obamacare, have no real idea of what they are talking about. They are spouting the party lines they have been fed.

How do I know this is true? Well, just listen to what they are saying.


It is a very complicated subject, is Obamacare. Mostly I see people hating it because they are told to hate it or because they think it is a road to "socialized medicine"...or other people cautiously endorsing it because they see it as an initial effort to bring some sort of universal health care for all people in this country...something sorely needed. (I am part of the latter group.)


Quote:
There is no rational honest discussion about the real issues surrounding healthcare in this country-- not from the politicians and not from the press. The American public wants slogans and sound bites rather than real information. In my opinion, that makes the stupid.


This statement reminds me of a comment I heard from a person (cannot remember what was the subject being discussed, but remember the comment) who responded: "Well why didn't the press make a big thing when Kennedy (Ted Kennedy) ran off that bridge and killed that girl?"

That comment was absurd...and for you to say, "There is no rational honest discussion about the real issues surrounding healthcare in this country-- not from the politicians and not from the press"...is every bit as absurd.

THERE IS!


Quote:
The American public wants slogans and sound bites rather than real information. In my opinion, that makes the stupid.


Yeah, there are slogans and sound bites involved...but there is passionate, informed, reasonable, honest discussion also. There certainly is among the people with whom I hang...and engage in discussion.

I think you just feel like calling voters "stupid" because of frustration with the way things are going right now. It is a tough world...and for some, blaming a segment (like the voters) is the most soothing way to handle things.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 06:50 am
Here's how we tend to see it over the pond......


revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 07:29 am
@Lordyaswas,
I'm glad they started making youtube CC. Still have a hard time with British humor, but then I have hard time with American too. Funny about the gay muslim bears.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 07:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't think the voters are stupid. I merely think they are frustrated and whoever is in position of leadership usually is the target to vent their frustration. In essence I think the midterms was a vote against Obama rather than a vote for republicans and their ideals. I say the latter because of the answers to exit poll questions are opposite of those who were voted into congress and because in general, those in all leadership positions are not held in high favor right now. I think the real challenge might very well be figuring out what the frustration is.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 08:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
First of all, the parsing of words is silly. I would say that the American electorate, as a group, acts pretty illogical. I would also say that the vast majority of American voters are ill informed about the issues involved. But let's get to the more interesting topics.

Quote:
That comment was absurd...and for you to say, "There is no rational honest discussion about the real issues surrounding healthcare in this country-- not from the politicians and not from the press"...is every bit as absurd.

...

Yeah, there are slogans and sound bites involved...but there is passionate, informed, reasonable, honest discussion also. There certainly is among the people with whom I hang...and engage in discussion.


Here is the core of our disagreement. I disagree with you. You will find individuals who engage in informed discussions. But, as a whole, the majority of American voters are happily ignorant about the important issues behind the slogans and 30 second ads that are informing their vote.

Let me give you a perfect example - death panels.

If you remember, the phrase "Death panels" has played prominently in public yelling over Obamacare and it has been used frequently in political campaigns since. There is yelling about death panels and against death panels.

However, there is an important issue that needs to be discussed here as a society.

If we are going to control the cost of healthcare, we need some way to limit the amount we spend keeping someone alive at the end of their life. We, as a society, need to be able to make decisions about this.

Show me a politician who has honestly addressed this with the American voter. The "death panel" shouting match goes on and on with no substantive discussion of the important issue behind it. No American politician is going to have this discussion with any depth because if they do, they know the public will punish them at the polls.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 08:24 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

First of all, the parsing of words is silly. I would say that the American electorate, as a group, acts pretty illogical. I would also say that the vast majority of American voters are ill informed about the issues involved. But let's get to the more interesting topics.

Quote:
That comment was absurd...and for you to say, "There is no rational honest discussion about the real issues surrounding healthcare in this country-- not from the politicians and not from the press"...is every bit as absurd.

...

Yeah, there are slogans and sound bites involved...but there is passionate, informed, reasonable, honest discussion also. There certainly is among the people with whom I hang...and engage in discussion.


Here is the core of our disagreement. I disagree with you. You will find individuals who engage in informed discussions. But, as a whole, the majority of American voters are happily ignorant about the important issues behind the slogans and 30 second ads that are informing their vote.

Let me give you a perfect example - death panels.

If you remember, the phrase "Death panels" has played prominently in public yelling over Obamacare and it has been used frequently in political campaigns since. There is yelling about death panels and against death panels.

However, there is an important issue that needs to be discussed here as a society.

If we are going to control the cost of healthcare, we need some way to limit the amount we spend keeping someone alive at the end of their life. We, as a society, need to be able to make decisions about this.

Show me a politician who has honestly addressed this with the American voter. The "death panel" shouting match goes on and on with no substantive discussion of the important issue behind it. No American politician is going to have this discussion with any depth because if they do, they know the public will punish them at the polls.




Max...the answer to your original question is...I, for one, do not think American voters are stupid. There are a couple others here who also think American voters are not stupid.

It is much too encompassing, universal, and generalized an assessment...and is, as has been pointed out, a generalization that is stupid in itself.

That seems to be something you WANT to do, Max...to generalize in as negative a way as possible about the American voter.

Good luck with that, but I think you are off base.

If you want to start a discussion about some of these other things...fine. I may well participate. But not here in a thread asking the question you asked. That has already been answered.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 08:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
You are participating in the discussion to tell me that you aren't participating in the discussion? I suppose that is OK, but you could simply not participate in the discussion (without actually saying so).

I have a very negative view of the intelligence of American voters as a group, and I think the facts (and the results) back me up.

If you don't want to discuss this, then I suppose there isn't much to discuss. It's always a pleasure Frank.

revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 08:48 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If we are going to control the cost of healthcare, we need some way to limit the amount we spend keeping someone alive at the end of their life. We, as a society, need to be able to make decisions about this.


No we don't. A decision that personal should be up to either the individual or the next of kin and their doctors. It is a deeply private personal liberty for a person to decide if they want to prolong their life or keep it going. Personally I think if a person wants to end their life, that should be their decision as well.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 08:59 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are participating in the discussion to tell me that you aren't participating in the discussion? I suppose that is OK, but you could simply not participate in the discussion (without actually saying so).

I have a very negative view of the intelligence of American voters as a group, and I think the facts (and the results) back me up.

If you don't want to discuss this, then I suppose there isn't much to discuss. It's always a pleasure Frank.


I didn't say I wouldn't discuss this, Max...in fact, I specifically said I would.

I do not want to discuss those other things here.

We are discussing whether there are people here who disagree with the statement: Americans voters are stupid.

I will discuss that from now until the sun explodes.

I DISAGREE THAT AMERICANS VOTERS ARE STUPID.

It is kind of a relative thing anyway, so let's get that out of the way. They are certainly no more stupid or uninformed than voters in most of the countries around the world that have voters. They have lives to live and obligations to meet...and spending lots of time becoming as informed as they must be in order to meet your absurd standards is not going to happen. In any case, some of the MOST INTELLIGENT AND WELL INFORMED voters in America disagree diametrically on how best to run our country. So your suggestion that having them be "smarter" or better informed...goes nowhere.

In any case, I suspect there are MANY people who do not agree with the blanket assumption: American voters are stupid. And that is what you asked.

So get off the "You are participating in the discussion to tell me that you aren't participating in the discussion? "...which is almost as inane as your title question. That is not what is happening...and you know it.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2014 09:00 am
@revelette2,
Revelette, the point is that this important discussion, and the moral and economic consequences, aren't being widely discussed by politicians or the press. If you are going to vote based on this issue (either way), I would like you to be informed.

People who assert strong opinions on important issues based on slogans and 30 second ads aren't doing democracy a favor. I am not at all implying that you are like that Revelette... but the majority of American voters are exactly like that.

If we American voters weren't like that, then elections wouldn't be decided with slogans and 30 second commercials.
 

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