58
   

Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:48 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Notice the operating word is ROMAN EMPIRE. Now was the EMPIRE achieved in a large land deal?
Im gonna say no.

"I am sympathetic to any claims that native people make regarding territory that Romans stole from them (note my previous commentary on Israel)."
farmerman
 
  4  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 11:01 am
@oralloy,
so you think that Romes annexation of territories was achieved in a bloodless fashion?
"Battleax Christianity" a term by Alice Beck Kehoe, seems to NOT forgive all the Christian pogroms on these "native peoples?
1. Beginning with Constantine like around 310, Battleax Christianity has a neat history of benign subjugation and killing of all "infidels".
2.Aggressive Catholicism nd subjugation of infidels
3.Protestand pogroms
4.Aboriginal populations suffered maybe 75% population losses worldwide to the benevolent Christian Gods.
Yet we give a pass and somehow overlook the aggressive Battleax religion and only concentrate on radicl Islam as if it were something new.
Hell, we taught it to em.



coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 01:27 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Hell, we taught it to em.

http://www.alien-earth.com/images/smileys/bullshit.gif

Here is what taught them.
Quote:
The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.



Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).



Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."



Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."



Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."



Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.



Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.



Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.



Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.



Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?



Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).



Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)



Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"



Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.



Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.



Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.



Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.



Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.



Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.




Ionus
 
  1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:28 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
Quote:
Ionus wrote: A very minor matter, but do you mean moderating or moderate ?

Moderating is the verb, moderate is the Noun.
Can you see that is evasive and not an answer ? A lot of your posts have an unintelligent evasive nature .

Your claim of documenting evidence is self-appointed . You dont really think no-one knows about terrorists attacks do you ? I think you are well aware of the publicity surrounding terrorist attacks, after all you have presented no new evidence for you to "document" but have relied on the news media . The Nazis claimed to be "documenting evidence" of Jewish terrorism . Despite their obvious power they claimed to be victims of Jewish attempts tp take over the world .

Islamic terrorism has killed indivduals, knocked over a couple of buildings and has resulted in over a million Muslims killed and several countries lost . They are now gathered in IS to make targeting easier and most of our intelligence and anti-terrorism actions are based on information supplied by Muslims . The war is now essentially Muslims fighting Muslims but you are on a Crusade to "document evidence".

You say you only have a distaste for Islam....how do you feel about Islamic terrorists ? Do you hate them ?
Ionus
 
  2  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:31 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
A fine moral act on our part. We had no intention of letting our resources be used to fuel Japan's genocide of their neighbors.
Yes it was .


Quote:
The part where you say that our refusal to back Japan's genocides was a threat to Japan's survival.
You must live in a very simple world . In the greatest stretch of your mind and employing all the powers of a obviously limited imagination, can you see it might be possible for both to be true ? Are you familiar with one action having two effects ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:45 pm
@oralloy,
Your post is simply stunning in logic . For example :

The Muslims conquered land from the Roman Empire and thus the Byzantine Empire was born . ??? LOOK AT THE DATES !!

The Romans were the true owners of the land because they had conquered it but the true owners were the Jews who had evolved there since Lucy . ??? Even by their own reckoning, the Jews conquered the land .

The Crusades were restoring Roman territory to Rome . ??? Were there any other reasons ? Why did they form their own State then ?

The Byzantines, Romans and the Jews are the rightful owners but you dont want the Muslims to hand it back to the Romans or the Byzantines . Is there anyone else the Muslims should hand back territory to ?

You want us to Love Jews, Romans, Byzantines because they conquered land and Hate Muslims because they conquered land . Got it !
Ionus
 
  1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:53 pm
@coldjoint,
Yes there are a lot of references in the Qur'an to violence . Wouldn't a balance approach also quote the references for peaceful coexistence ? unless you are trying to show us where the terrorists get their motivation from, but it seems you are attacking Muslims in total .

Should we kill all Muslims ?
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 08:58 pm
@Ionus,

Quote:
You want us to Love Jews, Romans, Byzantines because they conquered land and Hate Muslims because they conquered land . Got it !


No, I want you to realize that the excuses for Islam based on what someone else did mean 0. Romans, Byzantines are killing no one present day. And Israel kills in self defense.

And you do not have to hate Muslims to hate what they are doing, or do you like rape murder and terror? Give the "hate" word a rest.

coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:30 pm
http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015-02-06-5e1eee7f.jpg
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:32 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:

Should we kill all Muslims ?


Just the ones who want to kill us. Right now we know where a whole shitload of them are. Kill them.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:35 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Give the "hate" word a rest.
But I see a lot of hate in Muslim terrorists . I dont want our side making the same mistake . The balanced approach has brought us many allies in the Muslim world . The Qur"an has embarrassing aspects fro Muslims, just like the Bible has embarrassing aspects for Christians . If we are to win this war, and so far we are flogging the daylights out of fundamentalist Islam, then we need to continue a mature balanced approach .
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:41 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
and so far we are flogging the daylights out of fundamentalist Islam,


Drop the Koolaid. What planet are we winning on?
Ionus
 
  2  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:41 pm
@coldjoint,
I couldnt agree more . But in the world of politics, people are trying to reign in reactionary violence towards Muslims because it is Muslims who are the greatest contributors to our winning whilst also taking the vast burden of the war .

Our loses so far are miniscule . look hard at what happened to the other side . We couldnt possibly complain about terrorist attacks in the west when we murder more of our own citizens each year than the total of victims of terror .

Stay the course . We are winning easily .
Ionus
 
  3  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:47 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
What planet are we winning on?

This one .
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 09:55 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Stay the course . We are winning easily .


I don't know if you would be saying that in France or the UK. Citizens living next to Muslim ghettos are being terrorized. Muslims are not assimilating and bleeding welfare systems dry.

I do not think any of those people would agree with you.
vikorr
 
  1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 10:37 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
You say you only have a distaste for Islam....how do you feel about Islamic terrorists ? Do you hate them ?
Can't find anything to justify your position, so you are now desperately clutching at straws? Why don't you just be a man and admit you got it wrong?

Though in answer to your question. No I don't hate them (they have done nothing to me personally). So to me it's the same as any murderers. I don't want anything to do with them.

Quote:
You dont really think no-one knows about terrorists attacks do you ?
You obviously aren't reading what I post even though I've stated it multiple times - I said that people ignore:
- the breadth; and
- the frequency; and
- the severity
None of this says that people may not know about individual attacks. It is the combined pattern that people ignore, and that I point out by posting links to ongoing events.
Quote:
Your claim of documenting evidence is self-appointed .
Rolling Eyes Of course it is...you point this out like:
- it shouldn't be obvious that in a discussion forum, posters will present evidence of their opinions.
- I haven't been asked multiple times to justify my position....and how does one do that without evidence?

You are severely struggling with your hallucination that I am hateful...and these quotes are the best nonsense you can come up?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite frankly, as there is not one iota wrong with posting links to current event that carry a similar theme....your ongoing attempts to demonise such would have to be founded in ulterior motive.

vikorr
 
  1  
Wed 18 Mar, 2015 11:02 pm
@vikorr,
I can only presume you find it too painful to admit to your own know-it-all attitude, and that you get some things wrong.

Ionus says 'I know you so much better than you do!'
Vikorr says 'uh, no you don't'
Ionus says 'Don't argue with me, I do'
Vikorr says 'What basis do you have for thinking that'
Ionus says 'I have a single word you said!'
...............................................................................
Vikorr says 'Uh, that word is accurate, and in 100 posts, thats all you've got?'
Ionus "What??? You can't explain it that way - it's obviously dodgy because you explained it AFTER I challenged you on it'
Vikorr 'uh yeah, isn't it normal to explain something after it's challenged?
---------------------------------------------------
'Ionus says'No no, you must be hateful...let me think...you MUST be hateful because you are posting links to current examples of violence in the name of Islam'

Vik says 'err yes...as I've previously said, people ignore the overall pattern: the combined breadth, frequency and severity'
Ionus says 'dude they know about single events, so you must be a hater'
Vikorr says 'uh yeah they do...did you hear what I said about ignoring the overall pattern of breadth/frequency/severity?
Ionus says 'Dude posting links of evidence to violence in the name of Islam is hateful, no matter how true
Vik says 'Err no, it is simply documenting real life events
Ionus 'whatdoisay, whadoIsay to that??
--------------------------------------
Ionus says 'Dude, documenting real life events is akin to nazi tactics !
Vik says 'I've also been asked to justify my position numerous times. How do I justify it without evidence?'
Ionus says 'Ugh, can't argue with that....OH! You're a self appointed crusaders. No one asked you to do such
Vik says 'Are you nuts...once again, this is a forum where people should back up their position...and others did ask me to justify my position'
---------------------------------------------------
Ionus says 'Drat, lost out on that, whatdoIsay, whadoIsay...'

Ionus says ' Dude I base my claim that you hate on the fact that you haven't conceded a single point to the other side'
Viks says 'here's multiple links where I've conceded valid points of the other side'
Ionus 'Oh dear, I'd better not raise that again...oh wait...I know !'.
Ionus says 'You haven't said a single thing moderate'
Vikorr says 'Here's links to where I've said moderate things, and moderated others more extreme claims'
Ionus says 'whatdoIsay, whatdoIsay...oh I know
------------------------------------------------------
Ionus says 'Dude your opinion ISN"T moderate
Vikorr says 'It's accurate to best of my knowledge
Ionus says 'Hah accuracy / smaccuracy, that doesn't matter'

Is that about the gist of how this conversation is going?
Ionus
 
  2  
Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:12 am
@vikorr,
I'll let you in on a little secret...I hate Muslim Terrorists . But I respect Muslims, Christians, Jews, hell most religions but not the extremists, be they religious or atheists .

You say people ignore the breadth, frequency and severity of terrorism...how do you know this ? I would like to make sure of something before I set off to educate people like you have...are you using any other means for this important mission of yours ?

Quote:
You are severely struggling with your hallucination that I am hateful
or you are severely struggling with the hallucination that you do not hate .

Quote:
your ongoing attempts to demonise such would have to be founded in ulterior motive.
Yes, I do have an ulterior motive . If we stay calm and reasonable we will continue to be supported by Muslims in the War on Terror . They are after all, our foot soldiers and our intelligence gathering in this war . It is their cities and people that are being destroyed and killed yet they continue to fight terrorism . Somewhat too late they are now realising all that USA is the Devil bullshit has damaged themselves more than changed the west .
Ionus
 
  2  
Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:14 am
@coldjoint,
Roughly there are a billion people in the west . How many do you think live next to a Muslim ghetto ?
Ionus
 
  2  
Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:29 am
@vikorr,
Very Happy Thanks vikorr, I needed a good laugh . If only people knew what you know . How much ESP do you use to determine only you can educate people and you have to do it so they dont ignore the overall pattern: the combined breadth, frequency and severity ? Is there anything else they dont know ? All those people depending on you...lucky you know what they dont and can explain it with posts about violent extremists . That doesnt mean you are biased or can not concede the good side of Islam does it ?

I dont suppose it matters to an educator like yourself that last posting of yours will not impress anyone . It only emphasises your bias that you say you don't have .

I recommend everyone read his posts and see if you can see anything moderate . You have put up a little camouflage, but it is easy to see through . You want people to hate Muslims just like you do . I however, have made a very clear distinction between Muslims and Islamic Terrorists and have not posted anything that might cause shock which will later turn into hatred...unlike viky with his knowledge of what people dont know but cant explain how he knows that...
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