Potty-Mouthed Princesses Drop F-Bombs for Feminism by FCKH8.com

Exactly. We are trained to value equality, but wired to desire differences, inequality, or even domination. And in that discrepancy lies a problem...

I think that's the town (which I liked too, saw it off season, just us wandering around) that an article I saw mentioned being da vinci code tourist infested (or similar words).

I'll see if I can find that in my files or elsewhere.

Vive la difference.. as they say.

Found it, or at least one of the articles about it - and I'm wrong on two counts. The book was not by Dan Brown but some books about vampires by Stephenie Meyer, and the town wasn't San Gimignano but another one I like, Volterra.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/teen-twilight-vampire-tourism-volterra-s-battle-for-authenticity-a-690073.html

I repent my mistakes.

This is quite most apalling piece of apologia I have yet seen from you. All these bad women, not once did you mention a man. Like say the one that owned the property the woman was mistreating slaves on. The one that inherited it from his father. Or bought it with the money he'd earnt because could get a decent paying job Because it was socially acceptable for him to be educated and wield power, and indeed marry the evil slave mistreater in a church run by men with a deeply misogynist ideology that actively vilified and repressed her gender.

I say it again. You are myopic on this issue. You cannot see past your own woes and resentments which in itself is perfectly understandable, but to try and pass it off as evidence based reasoning is frankly delusional.

Apologia?

I am simply pointing out that there is no similarity to the lives of modern American women living and the lives of African American men and women living under the scourge of slavery.

You making this comparison is delusional. At least you didn't bring up Nazi's (although this is really just as bad).

Your myopia shines. Focus on the analogy not the point it illuminates. Poor men. Society is so harsh on their gender. Women get all the breaks.

Even in your attack on the analogy you blame women. And you can't see what you are doing.

Are you really making the claim that the evils of slavery were committed solely by men and that women shouldn't be given any of the responsibility for the support they gave and the benefits they received from slaves? Is there any evil in history that women are responsible for?

Feminism has nothing to do with slavery. Men and women were both part of slave owning society. Both men and women benefited owning slaves. Both men and women abused slaves and both men and women supported the institution of slavery.

Slavery was a brutal institution that has nothing to do with what modern women in Western societies encounter today.

I don't know why you insist on continuing with this ridiculous metaphor.

Well put Olivier.

Even though women didn't have the vote until after the abolition of slavery, and the first woman congresswoman was not elected until 1916, and there's never been a woman president, they're fully to blame for slavery.

That makes so much sense, if you're a misogynistic bigot that is.

I am saying that men and women, both part of slave owning society, were both responsible for the scourge of slavery. I don't see why this is causing such a problem. We give both men and women credit for the triumphs of past societies, don't we?

There is no need for name calling.

There are women writers who supported the institution of slavery. Women had slaves to clothe them, watch them, clean for them, take care of their children. And women had slaves punished when they weren't obeyed.

I am curious on why you don't think that women and men aren't both equally morally culpable for their role in supporting, participating in and benefiting from the institution in slavery. Do you deny that women actually had slaves under their control that they benefited from? Or are you arguing that their husbands somehow shielded them from moral responsibility?

The narrative that men are always the oppressors (and that women are never oppressors) doesn't really match with what actually happened... especially during the time of slavery. In actuality, women and men have both supported slavery and bigotry.

What's wrong with viewing men and women equally (through the same lens)?

The point I am trying to make seems so obvious to me, I am surprised there is so much objection.

Neither women nor men are morally superior to the other gender.

Do we really disagree on this point?

Somewhat tangential, but not really: an article I saw and checked out from today's google news suggestions. It turned out to be interesting, re marriage, careers, and cultures.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/03/11/best_laid_plans_when_career_ambition_break_up_a_marriage.html?google_editors_picks=true

Do you know an analogy is? It isn't a comparison. Your dismal straw man argument is based on nothing. Prevaricate on. It only highlights your inability to rationalize the irrational.

Clearly not. Guess he stopped reading when he reached the letter l.

Thats an interesting conjecture. I disagree its the point you were trying to make initially, but if that's where you are now let's go with it.

At an individual level I agree, but on a macro level if you look at the evidence clearly woman are morally superior. Just look at gender balance of murderers, kiddy fiddlers perpetrarors of genocide.

Would you make the same evidence-based argument about the moral superiority of one race over another?

(I wouldn't.)

Yes, that's the only practical resolution: people can be as 'masculine' or as 'feminine' (whatever that means for them) in their sexual and emotional relations, and that's A-okay with feminism, as long as the general equality of rights and duties is maintained or enforced on other planes like politics and economics. Obviously these planes intersect in real life so it's messy, but that's the way real people try to make it work in this (very real, very messy) life of ours, as far as i can see.

No more condescending remarks about high heels, or women 'sexualising' themselves, I guess... ;-)

(nor about macho men)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08

What, I don't get to complain?
What would I do with my time?

Oh, the video was funny to me. My favorite old meeting friends place in LA was the Rose Cafe in Venice, now being take over from the family that were our landlords down the street, good ones in memory. Maybe there were other owners in between, I don't know the story. The new folk are planning to make it more New York like.
**** them.
Back before someone left the kitchen, they had the best croissants in LA.

Anyway, my point is that the cafe was sort of across the street from the original Gold's Gym and on given mornings, bulky muscled types would interface with various other miscreants.

That was in a borderline bad/not bad neighborhood when I first went there. Times have changed.