Ray Rice:Discussing domestic violence

I am not your "sonny" Ossobuco.

And Glitterbag may know Buttermilk better than I...but I can read what he wrote in that particular post...and I think her interpretation was shallow.

Frank, you can't even read between the lines.

Your reading comprehension level: "Reading Rainbow".

Ray Rice is wrong. I'm not defending him and I think he needed to be punished. Should he be banned from the NFL? No. Just like if I slapped my wife twice I shouldn't have to be fired from my 9 to 5. Point blank period.

Right and I'm agreement with you. Ray Rice is wrong. But the question is whether or not the punishment was excessive. But hey Rice is learning a hard lesson that violence is not the answer. There are a lot of men and women out there in the world that have anger issues.

I'm asking for your admiration nor do I want it coming from a person like yourself. What ticks me off is the over usage of the word thug. I cannot read not one online article which depicts the shooting of a black teenager or some African-American involved in alleged criminal activity the uses the word thug especially when people chime in on the discussion.

Look, you obviously went through experiences just like I have and just like millions of others in the United States. Fine, I'll give you that. But when I was discussing my experiences I was responding to your assertion of me "whining." Last time I checked, this is a discussion forum and in fact I would think you would want to hear the experiences of someone who beat the odds despite the societal stereotype and the continued struggles that many minorities face.

When Tupac Shakur in the 90's came out talking about Thug love I never heard the overuse of the word thug from Caucasians. When Bone Thugs N' Harmony came out I didn't hear black criminals being labeled thugs. When Trayvon Martin came out and as right-wing media outlets came about, thug is being severely overused to label young black men who have made bad mistakes. Let us take a cue from Time Magazine:

"Sherman is correct that these days, a white person can object to a black person’s behavior as “thug” in public, when what they mean is that the behavior was not just offensive but offensive in a way associated, negatively, with black men. Of course no one puts it that way. But nobody calls, say, Justin Bieber a thug (or fighting hockey players, as Sherman pointed out). Why is there a particular word used when, say, someone like Sherman goes off on somebody?"

Source:http://time.com/2369/richard-sherman-thug-n-word/

So yes Glitterbag, you are indirectly like the countless sheep are advocating the same type of mentality that many do when labeling someone black who committed a terrible act. You know what a real thug is? The kind that puts a 9mm to your face, make you strip down, and take your possessions. Or the kind of thug that sells dope and if you don't come up with his money, buries you with two bullets in your head.

People like Richard Sherman who trash talks on live television is not a thug, we call people like him "jaw jackers" people who talk a lot of smack. People like Ray Rice, we don't call him a thug, we call him an abuser (if he is chronically abusing his wife) or someone who has anger problems. So as you can see that word is something that is a eye sore because it is sorely misplaced but always overused. All I can say about your case, I'm sorry you went through those experiences and being a victim of unfortunate situations.

It's ok Frank she is the pot calling the kettle black. She wrote me a thesis on her life which I will respect enough to say is true but yeah her views on "white thugs" totally different than me growing up in the 90's having to deal with Bloods and Crips in Compton. Oh and she thinks I'm not black which is ironic since I didn't my post was indicative of my ethnicity.

SMH this post is soooo cryptic...

It's called snapping in anger.

When u hit her on the chin
the FIRST time, what was the result ?

Should they all be unemployed? Who would we forbid from participating in work next, the only way most people have to get the money that is needed to live? Rapists and child abusers we already do a good job at screening out....Say, why do we let racists work? Surely we should have zero tolerance for people who say racist things. THen who is next?

No. Domestic violence ought to be a non-issue when it comes to employment because these are domestic issues that don't in essence directly effect the company. However I see the NFL's stance as something of bending to the will of the masses of opportunist who feel that the NFL's suspension as an indirect way of accepting abuse, something the NFL does not want to be associated with.

I firmly believe Ray Rice shouldn't lose his job over something like this......Should he be punished? Of course, but not get kicked off a team.

Butter, what is your idea of punishment?

Thay might prove poor impulse control, qua personal violence. Is that the company's business?

My idea of punishment with respect to????

I'll assume you mean what would be the appropriate punishment for an NFL player who commits a criminal act "outside of being on the field?" Well, speaking as an associate in the healthcare field I believe that personal issues that are not associated with a hospital corporation or affiliates ought to not be punishable. I feel like whatever I do outside of work whether criminal or otherwise I shouldn't have to hear about it from my employer. However, if you're a licensed professional you have a greater obligation by your state to uphold a certain character that is lawful and it is your duty to maintain that character.

For example nurses can get their license suspended if:

1) They are behind on child support

2) If they commit a felony in relation to the qualifications, functions, and duties of their profession

3)Gross Negligence

Similarly with doctors so I think when it comes to being a licensed professional, the greater the duty to be lawful. What is different is those that are unlicensed as they have less of an obligation (but an obligation nonetheless) to uphold a particular lawful character. In the case of Ray Rice, players who are being paid beyond six figures and are being treated (free of charge) by the team for physical ailments and other issues that effect their ability to play have an even greater obligation. That obligation comes from the corporation of the NFL.

Let's be honest, the NFL doesn't punish players for drug offenses and domestic violence because it is upholding some moral code, it punishes players because they do not want to loss sponsors and endorsements. The NFL like the MLB and NBA and NFL are all logos that are meant to draw in families to make money and entertain. I think what many feminists and domestic violence advocates fail to realize is that by you antagonizing the company is not going to trickle down to the players because when it comes down to it, if a woman is married to a multi-millionaire who is abusive and you ban that person, you're not only effecting the antagonist, but also the victim.

By doing such things makes women who are true victims of domestic violence less likely to come forward because all she is going to think about is "what about me and the kids!" So in my opinion an appropriate punishment would be a 3 game suspension without pay, have the player sign a contract to meet with a MFT (Marriage Family Therapist), a clinical psychologist/psychiatrist to perhaps treat any underlying anger issues, and have the player reaffirm their contract regarding off the field conduct and have the player sign some sort of promissory contract to where they acknowledge awareness of receiving the help from the organization and that the person will make some sort of conscious effort to maintain integrity and if the player violates this, the players contract is void and subject to being suspended and/or released from the team.

I would rather help the player than appease advocates because they're former victims and feel like players ought to be severely punished. What these advocates don't realize is that many of these men were perhaps victims themselves who never sought the help. Football is about testosterone and aggression so of course your average coach is not about to soften a player up by getting them to psychiatric counseling to have them get in touch with their feelings, especially if that aggression helps the team win an NCAA title.

I think the NFL being the zenith of professional football has more of an obligation to contain a player's behavior because of their image.

There are plenty of functioning alcoholics I work with who do their job just as adequate as people who are sober. Is it the company's business? Yes. But you wouldn't know unless the person came into work sloppy drunk and inebriated. There are chronic marijuana users outside of work that come in to work full of concentrated THC is that the company's business? Yes, if and only if the person is obviously under the influence of marijuana. There are plenty of associates I know who abuse their spouse that I work with, but is it the company's business? Sure, if and only if (as you say if poor impulse control is present) have violent tendencies towards themselves and staff.

But if you have people that have the aforementioned issues that come into work and do their job without any problems then it's really one of those fine line issues where if the company's wheels keep moving then the company should not pry into the personal dealings of associates.

When u hit her on the chin
the FIRST time, what was the result ?

Why are you prying? This was over 15 years ago. I was angry I don't remember much. Ask anyone in a fit of rage when you are angry on that level you black out. But the fade of time regarding the issue is more of something I face as opposed to remembering what she looked like when she was hit.

Callous and dismissive, out of misplaced respect for you, I reread Buttermilks very young take on all the worlds evils. He is almost as full of himself as a young nurse as you are as a cranky old man reading deep wisdom in a bunch of 'to be expected' horse crap parroted by a very immature young man who believes the world has not rewarded him properly for doing what everyone else is expected to do. He minces words regarding violence against women, he parses imaginary situations trying to 'quantify' what constitutes domestic violence. I don't know how life treated you Frank, maybe you have some lingering nostalgia of an under appreciated young frank who also was not recognized for his genius at an early age.

What's the real problem Frank, hasn't CI posted lately?? You usually like to post taunting nonsense regardless of what he mentions. You love being a jerk to CI, have you decided to expand your bitterness??? I tell you what, you can continue to revel in the predictability of Buttermilk's complaints, he states I'm like sheep following what ever the hell he thinks makes me ordinary. If I'm ordinary, he hopes that makes him extraordinary. Certainly you have lived long enough to recognize the almost pitiful lament of entitled young men and women pissed that they are not yet running the world because 50 something's are too selfish to step aside and let the real talented youngsters move into to those positions. That's because they think turning 45 will never happen to them. They will never get old, that just for us dinosaurs. Frankly, they have missed the hard fact that most of us have been 31 or 32 and can remember what it's like. Those younger people have no idea that life is actually still enjoyable even when you are no longer a 30 something.

I'm not interested in buttermilks opinion of me, actually not yours either. I'm way past the point of getting permission from anyone to state my opinion. The young guy basically told me I have to modify my behaviour to suit him, can you believe that!!! That is either a very ego driven, or a clueless thing to say. I'm not asking anyone to modify their behaviour, my sense of self is not that fragile. I don't know if that actually works in his real life, but when I was still working, that type of demand would have labeled him a crybaby, the other men would would have his number, and he would be kicking himself for years because that story would follow him forever.

Frank, you need to to sharpen your tuner. Maybe reread that egotists pity party again, you might not be tuned in.

First and foremost none of my posts have anything to do with me and nor do I make it about myself. All the things I say which I involve myself in have to do with examples. You have tried to demonstrate a personal example of the so-called "thug" or "white thug" or whatever thug and I called you out on your hypocrisy and I informed you on how that word was used with racial undertones. You had no response.

Please don't give me that mother hen bullshit because you know what, you don't know everything in the damn world and it showed here. Stop using your age as a leverage as if you know everything. We're all on a forum sharing views. If you don't care about anything I, or what Frank is saying why are you continuing to participate in this thread? Besides you don't have to modify **** for me and obviously whatever I said got under your ******* skin cause you're in this thread whining about it...Go figure you'd think someone as ancient as you would walk away and chalk it up as me being young since, that is what you always tend to go towards, my age...For fucks sake lady that short essay of you ******* demonstrating you having the last stages of your menstrual cycle lets me know you are still an emotional old bag.