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Ray Rice:Discussing domestic violence

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:33 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You do not know that an given that she had no fear in provoking him in the manner that she did, in the elevator, it seems very very unlikely that he is a ongoing abuser.

as well that she stayed with him to include marrying him. This is written off as presumed stupidity on her part, but from what I can read about her there is no evidence that she is stupid. She has known this guy for over ten years, has been with him for six, maybe we should respect her evaluation.
0 Replies
 
Buttermilk
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:44 pm
@glitterbag,
Again typical Caucasian response....

What is up with white folks and the use of the word thug?

Sherman Williams, an honors graduate from Stanford? Trash talk on live television towards Michael Crabtree and suddenly after he is called a "thug." I call you a bitch and I'm exibiting "thuggish behavior" or "thuggish language." Typical FAUX news response to curse words sheesh. As far as counting my blessings, yes of course I do. I work at a hospital so I see far too many young men and women die for making bad choices.

I spend 12 hours everyday trying to encourage young kids to take a more positive path. Some listen, most don't. Pavlov's rule is something that is true even in the ghetto. The reason why we think whites don't understand is because you've never had to live with a label. Blacks are born with a label like canned food.

If you ever read comments on discussion forums, YouTube, papers, Yahoo especially on cases such as Ray Rice or Michael Brown, whites always love citing statistics on crime or world star or something that truly isn't representative of the majority.

Did you know when the Ray Rice story broke, all I read was:

"Blacks are animals"

"Rice was a THUG."

Etcetera....

So some of the kids that I encounter I understand their frustration because I know America is still racist society. White people on a large scale do not speak on the injustices that happen to people of color. If we (blacks) complain, we are whining, if we don't, we're lazy. Even after I've received my Masters I've heard 1 or 2 remarks about me receiving affirmative action from my fellow white coworkers.

Of course it wasn't because I graduated Summa Cum Laude honors or because my name was on a peer reviewed research paper, it's because NAACP helped me. Oh like so many white folks online like to talk about, I was a product of a single parent household since the ongoing stereotype is that blacks are failures because the father isn't at home (little do people know the success and failure of anyone in a single parent household depends on multiple factors).


My point in all this is to say my attitude here is one mask I wear just like the different masks we use day to day with different people. When your tone changes I'll wear a different, more pleasing mask.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:45 pm
I lived hood adjacent, and I do know the difference, I wasn't right in the middle of it, though we did rent a place with seven broken windows. That was a few blocks - 4?5? - from the center of sholine crips territory but on a main street... where some famous people were shot. The house we eventually bought some years later for little money (1976) was in a red lined area maybe ten blocks away from the heart of the trouble. I sort of get your views of all of us white people who didn't live your life, but on the other hand, I have an eritrean friend whose brothers and sisters got no education because they fought in a war as children. My niece's brothers fought as late teens in Sierra Leone and were captured. You do seem to parade your chipped shoulder as a kind of flag carrying against the stupid and it's annoying.

Were we gentrifiers? We did paint the place. Things were pretty stable all around but got fancified after I left in the late nineties (couldn't afford to stay after divorce, and leaving was hard).

Forty years after those broken windows that area is now hip - or maybe it's on a downslope, haven't been there since 2009.

I get some women are aggressive like that. I've known one. It was a relative with a relative, and the police blamed both. Clocking them is surely overdoing it, unless they wield guns/knives. At thirteen doing that, I'm not blaming you. Now I surely hope you could defend in some smarter way.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:54 pm
@Buttermilk,
Butter,

Ray hit her... twice.

Ray dragged her body with zero sympathy for his actions.

Nothing else needs to be said. Pulling the racist card makes you a tool. This is not racism - this is logic. You're just mad that people don't agree with your nonsense, so you pull at people's heart strings - people may not see the harrowing **** storm inside you, but I do and I'm sure your screaming conscience is reaching out to me as your conscious prison increases its pain's longevity.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:57 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Convention has it that women are the gentler sex.


But when it comes to relationships they are more likely than men to be controlling and aggressive, a study claims.

Increasing numbers of women can now be classed as ‘intimate terrorists’, meaning that they are verbally and physically violent towards a partner.

Psychologists at the University of Cumbria questioned 1,104 young men and women using a scale of behaviour which ranged from shouting and insulting to pushing, beating and using weapons.

They discovered that women were ‘significantly’ more likely to be verbally and physically aggressive to men than vice versa.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2669408/Rise-female-relationship-terrorists-Study-finds-women-controlling-aggressive-partners-men.html#ixzz3DEAJss3d
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


OOPS, we are not supposed to talk about this. We certainly cant have anyone talking off the feminist party line that women are generally the victims in intimate partner violence.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 01:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
In this case, the male was violent.

Why are you comparing apples to oranges, Hawk? Male bias? Arguing for the female does not make you a feminist.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:05 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Quote:
In this case, the male was violent.


So was she. She has admitted as much and we can see her in the video apparently spitting on him. Women tend to use emotional terrorism against their men, men tend to use physical terrorism. I am not willing to call the two equivalent, but I am not willing to dismiss intentional emotional harm either.

The feminists want to have it both ways, when women are emotionally hurt by sexual assault the feminists use this emotional harm to demand that the men be beat upon by the justice system, but when women intentionally emotionally abuse men we are supposed to ignore the intent to do harm because women are just poor weak victims who cant be expected to do better.

This does not work for me, intentional emotional harm either matters or it does not. I say it does.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not claiming women can't be violent. Address that to someone else.
In my long lifetime I've see wowser controlling women and many almost seething controlling men, speaking of them as personalities and not batterers. I never kept data on which gender used manipulation/controlling more.
I think I have been fortunate to know a lot of people who can talk - my immediate cousins, for example.

In some ways I don't blame anybody, exactly. When I was a child, it was very important not to talk back, to respect elders, obey your parents or else it was a sin.

Then came the sixties, and about time....
and of course, there were misadventures, but I do think some rigid social stuff broke down with good and sometimes bad results.

I was born in '41 and am a child of my time - but once in a while I've read people writing earlier that helped wake me up.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:15 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
I'm not claiming women can't be violent.


I don't hear you admitting what the science shows,,,that women are routinely aggressive against men in intimate relationship.
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawk, are you comparing spit in the eyes to being punched brutally twice into an unconscious state, then being dragged out with no sympathy?

Yes, you are are - oh Universe, why have you created these abominations that cannot think any further than their balls, yet cannot think twice as much as Hitler?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
What?

"The feminists want to have it both ways, when women are emotionally hurt by sexual assault the feminists use this emotional harm to demand that the men be beat upon by the justice system, but when women intentionally emotionally abuse men we are supposed to ignore the intent to do harm because women are just poor weak victims who cant be expected to do better."

As usual, you place all feminists in some blockade of hating females. That is your personal problem that I'll let you get on with.

I happen to strongly dislike manipulation and have had friends, male and female, who think it's fine - part of raising children, for example. But I have long reacted negatively to it and consciously try not to do that, since somewhere in my twenties. If I have a point of view, calm or angry, I'll say it. I'm not here to change minds. Communication, good.

Re equating a taunt or a spit (I've never spit at anyone and if I tried it would just be a drool, and I cannot whistle either), that is very different than a strong left (by a football player yet) to the face.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Sure. I said years ago that whining is a ploy of weakness. Even women don't like that, and may advance to more straightforward talk, and yes, manipulative talk.

I didn't look at the Daily Mail link. The Daily Mail? I have a science background but don't look to the Daily Mail for it. But maybe they quoted a decent source. Anyway, sure, women are routinely aggressive in relationships. We're humans too. You like limp?

The aggressive mode that drives me nuts is 'passive aggression', and the person I think immediately of doing that is male.



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:45 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
I happen to strongly dislike manipulation

you should be free to seek mates and organize relationships to reflect your beliefs. I dont think Buttermilk has said this directly but what he is driving at is that if you want to have some violence in your relationship then you should be able to do that too. It is all about consent. If the feminist/state cooperative wants to have less violence in relationship then they should yak on, and go ahead and have shelters for men and women to go to if they want to get out of a violent relationship on a spur of the moment, but lets get out of the business of the collective enforcing templates on relationship. What ever any two people decide to do in their relationship is none of our business. This goes on the theory " I let you live your life and then you let me live mine" and " If I want help from the collective in my personal life then I will ask for it, till then leave me be".
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:51 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk wrote:

Have you ever been angry once? I have.

I was 13 in the 9th grade and I recall a young black girl from philly who thought she was tough. She used to bully guys with her tough talk and threats. Most guys walk away cause you know we all believed the "women are weaker" bullshit. Until one fateful day while going home on the school bus she was asked a question of whether she can fight. She ranted on how she could (and I quote) "whoop any bitch ass nigga on this bus."

All it took to set her off was me saying "yeah right...."

So the whole time while going to the drop off point she ranted how she was going to "**** me up" blah blah blah. As soon as we got to the drop off point I swear it seemed like the whole bus exited. I did the right thing and walked away. A few insults here and there but I walked away. She was so intent to "**** me up" she passed up her house.

She punched me twice in the back of my head as I was walking away...

I took my backpack off turned around walked up to her gave her two shots to the chin, dropped her, picked up my backpack and walked home. I learned the next day i broke her jaw. She spent the next 4 weeks drinking puree food. Only thing that saved me was 20 students saw her assault me first as I was walking away.

18 years later I don't regret it. My mother said don't put your hands on people and growing up in the inner city especially Compton women challenge and fight men all the time. This is why none of you understand. You guys think its ok if a woman assaults you. This is how women operate gender privilege, cause a lot of women know a man wont hit back.

Out here if you let a woman beat you up, you're considered a punk, but since none of you lived in "the hood" you couldn't possibly understand.


Right on, Buttermilk. You hit the nails right on the head.

What Ray Rice did was wrong, wrong , wrong...and a terrible disappointment to people in my area.

But some of the crap being thrown his way by the "holier than thou" crowd is enough to choke a buzzard on a manure wagon.

Different strokes.

They will work it out...and Ray may live his entire life without ever making that same kind of poor decision.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
The collective enforcing templates? Is that the start of a song?
Ok, I'm mocking. I get your point, but disagree with it.

There is a well known syndrome complex: the battered wife syndrome, also battered child, also battered male, which may happen less but real. Add battered elder.

Mutual agreement is a problematic concept, in the realm of players, I take it.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 02:57 pm
@ossobuco,
Exactly, Osso.

Females became aggressive, while males became passive-aggressive.

Nobody even noticed it. I've been explaining to people that today's era is lead by psychopaths; everything is backwards. The bully; the ignorant; the stupid; the weak; the scum, they are all helped, while good men die on the streets like dogs. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, as they always say. And what better way to drown out the sound of the squeaky wheel than to make the same sound?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 03:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
I am not so sure on your take re Buttermilk. I think he is trying to explain to us, whoever us is, what he understands from living in Compton. He irritates me, but at this point I agree with him, re telling how it was when he lived there.

I don't surmise this means he is wanting a hitting relationship. That's you.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 03:10 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Mutual agreement is a problematic concept.

the collective labeling individuals as victims to rationalize removing their individual rights is a problematic concept. Invasive authoritarian regimes have long used that ploy to lock away and/or kill those people who it considers to be problems without due process or any regard for fairness. When the feminists and others call the steamrolling of individual rights a triumph "that used to be considered personal space but we have now criminalized the behavior because we dont like it" my blood gets set on boil.

In other news an NFL player was arrested and is not playing today because he took a switch to his brat kid. The excuse is that marks were left behind. Ya, that is what a switch does. Switches are still heavily used in the black community, and have a long rich history of being used by parents to help raise children. But now it is a criminal act. I get where a black man such as Buttermilk might get the impression that black culture and black men in particular are under attack. It is bad enough to absorb the abuse which is leveled at men, the last group in America it is ok to demean, being black gives him two strikes before he gets out of the bed in the morning.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 03:13 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk wrote:

Again typical Caucasian response..


Did you know when the Ray Rice story broke, all I read was:

"Blacks are animals"

"Rice was a THUG."

Etcetera....

My point in all this is to say my attitude here is one mask I wear just like the
different masks we use day to day with different people. When your tone
changes I'll wear a different, more pleasing mask.



Can you hear yourself???? Are you truly that deluded, you think I want your admiration after reading your pissy-pants rants on white people or god forbid women? You have no idea what my life experience has been. I have been beaten and injured, once by a stranger in a local club, because I won some stupid promotional gimmick and won a bottle of champaign. He was with a
group I had never seen, they all played semi-pro football and apparently liked to create a ruckus so everyone would see them. The management opened the bottle, frankly I don't like champaign, I've tried everything from moderate to mind blowing price range, it still tastes sour to me. I was with a group of about 4 women, old friends, back then it was safer to go out in groups. So, I'm busy pouring drinks, for the folks I knew as well as a few just nearby. I put the bottle in the bucket, when this 300 lb no neck ass hole with a blonde buzz cut, actually pushed me aside and like a bad movie, put the bottle to his mouth and drank the rest. One of the girls ran to get the bouncer, I'm not articulating because all I'm saying is hey, hey, hey, put that down. This was highly unusual, and frankly very surprising even in a bar(given the year and location) My friend is coming with the bouncer who looks pretty stern and menacing until he sees who the jerk is. He put his hands up and said looks like no trouble here and backs away. It was almost dreamlike, I'm puzzled, and irritated to be bothered by these big strangers, and while my mind is trying to digest this WTF moment, unbelievably (I still don't think anyone really uses these words) I hear a man roar drunkenly, ain't no broad gonna make trouble for my friend. Again, almost slow motion, I turn to see who in Christ's sake would such a stupid thing, and immediately had a full glass impact on my forehead. It was orange juice and vodka, it stunned me and I sat down, but the skin wasn't broken just a big knot
raised on my forehead. Those football players were doubled over in laughter.

My reality was I was raised in a predominately white area, our thugs were beefy white guys. So when I say thug, it's race neutral. I've never been manhandled by black boys or men. You want another less menacing name for Ray Rice, suggest something. Violent behaviour is violent behaviour no matter who mets it out.

Since the bouncer was too much of a pussy to call the police, my friends took me to the police barracks. I made a complaint, the cops were thrilled and I should have took a hint. The man who assaulted me had been arrested and charged numerous times, and the victim prior to me was recovering in a hospital. The police said the other guy didn't want to press charges. Do you see where I'm going with this????? All of his other victims were men, this group's MO was one thug would walk up to a stranger at a club, spit on him and when the guy wanted to take it outside, 4 or 5 other beasts were waiting to beat his brains out. But, was I worried, oh hell no, I was 21 and no one was going to hit me and get away with it.

I received phone threats, my friends were warned and I was told if I didn't drop charges, something might happen to me or my car. I still wasn't afraid, we went to court, he pled not guilty and was given probation before verdict. To add insult to injury the judge sails well you're all young people, you'll probably run into each other at a party or other club, and urged we let bygones be bygones and be more friendly. I was flabbergasted, I didn't travel in that guys circles. They were low life's who later sold drugs, some served time and I don't know what my attacker got into, but about 15 years later, he and his boat blew up on the Magothy River. Local sports broadcaster all lamented the untimely and unfortunate end to a great ball player. Ironic? No, especially today, thats what we do, admire guys who can play rough and win games. Back then it was a little hard to swallow.

Although we couldn't prove who did it, about a week after court when he got PBV, my car disappeared. I reported it stolen, and the fire department found it in an open field, the entire interior burned to a crisp. That's when it occurred to me a better course of action would have been fall to the floor when I got hit, pretend to have more serious injuries, then sue the restaurant where it occurred.


So bottom line buttercup, you can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. You are a wet behind the ears, malcontent who likely isn't even black. You tell me I need to modify my behavior, so I'll be suitable to you. Are you shitting me????
Black or white or Latino or whatever, you are a glaring example of breathtaking entitlement. I've seen it with white youngsters, thank for taking me on this little bi-racial trip, unless its pure fiction. Ask yourself, are you really that special everyone should bend to your will, really, just why is that? Because you're a great guy or your funny or have a charming personality??? That won't be a good reason until you can develop a sense of proportion. Right now, I just hear a pissed off young guy who thinks he has all the answers. Maybe you can luck out and find a hero who will make everything better for you. I wouldn't hold my breath, you have to want to improve, nobody will do it for you. Pity parties are not normally what I like to do with my spare time.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2014 03:16 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
I see passive aggressive people less often now. Maybe I am less attentive, or, more likely, people on the internet are speaking more straightforwardly.

When I see it now - which is essentially again, after absence, it makes me remember the creepiness of it.


Speaking of passive aggressive, what is your game?
 

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