17
   

I saw a white man with a gun. I heard a policeman saying, "Place the weapon down on the ground, ple

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 03:46 pm
@FBM,
Is the NSA still collecting mass communication data?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No idea. I'm not sure that anybody has made them stop, even after the revelations by Snowden.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 04:32 pm
@FBM,
You dont have to consider my opinion. I'm stating facts, not comedy routintes with formerly appointed political officials.
The studies I cite are accurate. ICPA, BJS, NIJ,etc. YOU just cant accept them. YOU find unreasonable fault with them because they dont suport your position. This is because your position is indefensible. It is based on histrionics and panders to the lowest common denominator. YOU have not offfered any credible statistics, but merely poo-pooed studies done by reputable orgaizations and government agencies.
You cry for a national data base. Who will pay for it?

You've said that you dont like the studies because they are voluntary and only show what the departmetn wants to show.
Here are surveys of the PUBLIC...now whats your excuse??

BJS
Use of Force
An essential element in law enforcement is the potential for suspect resistance and police use of or threatened use of force. In the Police Public Contact Survey (PPCS), persons who had contact with police during the previous 12 months, whether as a driver in a traffic stop or for some other reason, were asked if the police officer(s) used or threatened to use force against them during the contact. Survey respondents who reported more than one contact during the year were asked about the use or threat of force by police during their most recent contact.

Summary findings

Among persons who had contact with police in 2008, an estimated 1.4% had force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact, which was not statistically different from the percentages in 2002 (1.5%) and 2005 (1.6%).


Males were more likely than females to have force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact with police during 2008, and blacks were more likely than whites or Hispanics to experience use or threat of force.


Of persons who had force used or threatened against them by police in 2008, an estimated 74% felt those actions were excessive.


Of those individuals who had force used or threatened against them in 2008, about half were pushed or grabbed by police. About 19% of persons who experienced the use or threat of force by the police reported being injured during the incident.


Among persons experiencing police use or threat of force in 2008, an estimated 22% reported that they argued with, cursed at, insulted, or verbally threatened the police.


About 12% of those involved in a force incident reported disobeying or interfering with the police.


Among individuals who had force used or threatened against them in 2008, an estimated 40% were arrested during the incident.


An estimated 84% of individuals who experienced force or the threat of force felt that the police acted improperly. Of those who experienced the use or threat of force in 2008 and felt the police acted improperly, 14% filed a complaint against the police.


Selected findings from the Police-Public Contact Survey

In 1996 the Bureau of Justice Statistics
conducted a pilot test of the Police-Public
Contact Survey. Although not intended as
a source of detailed or precise statistics on
police use of force, the pilot survey did provide
preliminary estimates of the prevalence
of the public’s contact with police,
including contacts during which police
used force. Among the survey’s findings
are the following:
• An estimated 44.6 million persons (one in
five U.S. residents age 12 or older) had
face-to-face contacts with police officers
during the prior 12 months. Men, whites,
and people in their twenties were the
most likely to have those contacts.
• An estimated 33 percent of residents who
had contact with police had either asked
for assistance from officers or provided it
to them. About 32 percent of those who
had contact with police had reported a
crime, either as a victim or witness.
• For nearly half of those with contacts, the
encounters were initiated by the public.
For just under one-third of persons with
contacts, police initiated them.
• Age is an important factor in both the
frequency and type of police contacts
experienced. Young people were the
least likely to initiate contact with police
(their contacts most often were police
initiated), while persons age 60 or older
were the most likely to initiate contacts
with officers.
• About 1 percent of people reporting contacts
with police indicated that officers
used force or threatened force. In the majority
of those instances, respondents said
that their own actions, such as threatening
police or resisting arrest, may have provoked
officers.


The fact of the matter is in most reported cases when the offender was told he was under arrest and the officer placed a hand on the offenders wrist the offender tightened his arm and resisted. In most jurisdictions accross the U.S., this allows the officer to escalate the use of force continuum, i.e., open hand restraint, OC, taser, baton. To decrease the chances of officer injury several officers will usually assist to over power the offender.

DONT WANT TO GET HURT? STOP RESISTING.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Is the NSA still collecting mass communication data?

Yes...right now in fact...do you have yor tinfoil lined hat on?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 04:53 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:



BJS
Use of Force
An essential element in law enforcement is the potential for suspect resistance and police use of or threatened use of force. In the Police Public Contact Survey (PPCS), persons who had contact with police during the previous 12 months, whether as a driver in a traffic stop or for some other reason, were asked if the police officer(s) used or threatened to use force against them during the contact. Survey respondents who reported more than one contact during the year were asked about the use or threat of force by police during their most recent contact.

Summary findings

Among persons who had contact with police in 2008, an estimated 1.4% had force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact, which was not statistically different from the percentages in 2002 (1.5%) and 2005 (1.6%).


Males were more likely than females to have force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact with police during 2008, and blacks were more likely than whites or Hispanics to experience use or threat of force.


Of persons who had force used or threatened against them by police in 2008, an estimated 74% felt those actions were excessive.

...


An estimated 84% of individuals who experienced force or the threat of force felt that the police acted improperly.

Selected findings from the Police-Public Contact Survey

In 1996 the Bureau of Justice Statistics
conducted a pilot test of the Police-Public
Contact Survey. Although not intended as
a source of detailed or precise statistics on
police use of force,
...


*yawn*
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 04:53 pm
@giujohn,
Yea, wanna make sure they pick up everything! LOL
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Is the NSA still collecting mass communication data?


This isn't the NSA, but may turn out to be significant:

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/florida-court-requires-warrant-cell-tower-data/

Quote:
Cops Need a Warrant to Grab Your Cell Tower Data, Florida Court Rules

Americans may have a Florida drug dealer to thank for expanding our right to privacy.

Police departments around the country have been collecting phone metadata from telecoms and using a sophisticated spy tool to track people through their mobile phones—often without obtaining a warrant. But a new ruling out of Florida has curbed the activity in that state, on constitutional grounds. It raises hope among civil liberties advocates that other jurisdictions around the country may follow suit.

The Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday that obtaining cell phone location data to track a person’s location or movement in real time constitutes a Fourth Amendment search and therefore requires a court-ordered warrant.

The case specifically involves cell tower data for a convicted drug dealer that police obtained from a telecom without a warrant. But the way the ruling is written (.pdf), it would also cover the use of so-called “stingrays”—sophisticated technology law enforcement agencies use to locate and track people in the field without assistance from telecoms. Agencies around the country, including in Florida, have been using the technology to track suspects—sometimes without obtaining a court order, other times deliberately deceiving judges and defendants about their use of the devices to track suspects, telling judges the information came from “confidential” sources rather than disclose their use of stingrays. The new ruling would require them to obtain a warrant or stop using the devices.
...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:15 pm
@FBM,
What disturbs me is the simple fact that the supreme court will not rule on these issues that are illegal under our Constitution. They're supposed to uphold the laws of the Constitution.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:33 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
*yawn*


So transparent.

I notice you havent commented on the news out of Ferguson...

Seems to me Browns little buddy should be prosecuted for incitement to riot for the lies he told.

THIS IS WHAT YOU FOSTER WITH THE GARBAGE YOU SLING IN THIS FORUM DUMBASS
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:38 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
a) What does skin color have to do with it?


You brought skin color into it race baiter. We havent been talking about white people in this thread...do play stupid (although ya do it so well)
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What disturbs me is the simple fact that the supreme court will not rule on these issues that are illegal under our Constitution. They're supposed to uphold the laws of the Constitution.


Yeah, it seems pretty clear-cut to me, too. I wish they would at least publish a rationale for not issuing a ruling. The SCOTUS, that is. Looks like Fla. is on it, at least.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 05:54 pm
@giujohn,
I don't have a position on what happened in Ferguson. I wasn't there. When all the evidence is made available, that would be the time to take a position on it. In the same way, I started looking into the police brutality issue with a question, not an answer. After looking into to it, I discovered mountains of evidence that suggest that there is a problem. Therefore, my conclusion is that it looks like there is a problem. Derp.

As for the issue of race, take another look at the title of the thread.

giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 06:01 pm
@FBM,
YOU DONT HAVE A POSITION ON FERGUSON???????
But yet you post video after video, most out of context stating "there's a problem"?????

And you say you dont have an agenda??????

Man I know there are some stupid people in this forum, but please dont insult the rest of our collective intelligence. What an insult. You didnt have much credibilty b-4...you have NONE now.


Title of the thread means nothing this discussion...dont try to defect the obvious.
Your "mountain" of evidence is, what you like to say, anecdotal, one sided and purposely inflamatory; by your definition NOT evidence.
The answer to your "question" has already been given...DONT RESIST ARREST AND YOU WONT GET HURT.

Now what say you to the black males of this country???
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 06:07 pm
@giujohn,
The title of the thread means nothing with regards to its content. Right. New to the internet, I see. Certainly a stranger to logic.

I've posted a mountain of relevant statistics and emphasized it with anecdotes. The anecdotes are just the side dish; the relevant, credible statistics are the main dish. The stuff you try to pass off as relevant data has so far been debunked by experts or was an irrelevant red herring.

Now for another anecdote:

Quote:
High School Student, Forced to the Ground at Gun Point for Not Wearing Seat Belt

Waycross, GA — High school senior and community role model, Montre` Merritt’s life was forever changed the night he was thrown to the ground and held at gun point in his own driveway by an overzealous police officer.

On January 18, Merritt was pulling into his driveway when a Waycross police officer pulled up behind him and jumped out of his cruiser, pistol drawn.

Merritt was then forced to the ground with the gun pointed at his head, and handcuffed.

Hearing the commotion in the front yard, Merritt’s mother came outside. She asked the officer why her son was lying on the ground in cuffs with a gun pointed at him, and the officer told her that Merritt was driving without his seat belt on.

Immediately following this ridiculous excessive force and violation of rights, Merritt filed a complaint with the Waycross police department.

According to the chief of the department, Officer Cory Gay was found guilty of using excessive force, and he was suspended for five days without pay. Gay was then ordered to take Judgmental Use of Force Training. But Merritt’s family said that’s not enough and Thursday they filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the department.
...

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/high-school-student-forced-ground-gun-point-wearing-seat-belt/#vBVi1G0IqPY63Do4.99
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 06:14 pm
@FBM,
I hope they win that suit. The police needs to clean up their bad cops or pay the million dollar fines for unnecessary excessive force. Gun to the head?

The police officer had to be fired; not suspended without pay.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 06:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
True that. I was reading and expecting to see something about speeding or resisting. Nada. Just yanked him out and stuck a gun to his head for not wearing a seatbelt. Jeez.

Edit:

I have to wonder if that would've happened to a white kid...
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 07:59 pm
@FBM,
RACE BAITER
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 08:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
or pay the million dollar fines for unnecessary excessive force


Hey genius, the cops dont pay it...YOU do.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 08:20 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

RACE BAITER


You're the one who (accidentally?) outed himself as a racist a while back. Too late to http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/icon_whine.gif about that.

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2014 08:23 pm
Noooo...There's no police brutality problem at all...

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/city-pays-heavy-price-police-brutality/fri-04112014-1002pm

Quote:
City pays heavy price for police brutality

Chicago, the term “police brutality” is inextricably linked to former Cmdr. Jon Burge’s sadistic South Side homicide squad, which imposed extreme measures, including torture, to extract false confessions from dozens of suspects.

Burge’s “Midnight Crew” may be the most visible symbol of excessive force, but from a legal and fiscal standpoint they’re actually a relatively small part of a shockingly pervasive citywide problem uncovered by a Better Government Association investigation the Sun-Times published a week ago.

Brutality-related lawsuits have cost Chicago taxpayers $521 million over the last decade — that’s more than half a billion dollars — and Burge’s team accounts only for about 15 percent of that staggering figure.

In 2013 alone, the city paid out $84.6 million in settlements, judgments, legal fees and other expenses, more than triple the budgeted amount.

That’s a huge expenditure for a city with billions of dollars in unfunded pension obligations, and a budget crisis severe enough to force mental health clinic shutdowns, reduced library hours and higher fees for water, parking and other services.
...
0 Replies
 
 

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