17
   

I saw a white man with a gun. I heard a policeman saying, "Place the weapon down on the ground, ple

 
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 08:53 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
The killings are self-reported by law enforcement and not all police departments participate so the database undercounts the actual number of deaths. Plus, the numbers are not audited after they are submitted to the FBI and the statistics on "justifiable" homicides have conflicted with independent measures of fatalities at the hands of police.

About 750 agencies contribute to the database, a fraction of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:04 pm
People in the know are well aware that the number 400 is flawed information.

Quote:
Here's One Theory About Why Cops In America Kill So Many People

The protests and violence sparked by the police shooting of an unarmed 18-year-old in Ferguson, Missouri, have stirred up a debate in the U.S. about the use of lethal force by police.

In the chart above, you can see just how alarming American statistics on fatal police shootings are when compared to other Western countries.

The FBI reports that in 2011, cops in America killed 404 suspects in acts of "justifiable homicide." Astonishingly, though, as FiveThirtyEight reports, this number likely doesn't include every civilian fatality that year since it relies on voluntary reporting and doesn't include police homicides that aren't justifiable.

Still, 404 is a large number. By comparison, just six people were killed by police in Australia over the same period. Police in England and Wales killed only two people, and German police killed six.

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/hapkido1996/chart-comparing-police-shootings-in-2011_zpsa44230b4.jpg

Last year, police in England did not record a single shooting fatality, with officers across the country only firing weapons on three occasions.

Cops on the street in England do not carry firearms.

In Australia, where police do carry handguns, gun control is relatively tight. Police in some states receive special training for dealing with mentally ill suspects.

There are some theories about why cops in America kill more people. Ladd Everitt from the Washington-based advocacy organization, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, told Business Insider, "We see this as a product of the continuing arms race between law enforcement and civilians that has been going on for decades."

Everitt said the increasingly sophisticated weaponry being sold to U.S. civilians is forcing police to keep up, with both sides purchasing ever more powerful weapons.

The arms race means "police officers have legitimate fears about the nature of the firepower they are confronting on a daily basis," he said.

The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence told us they thought it would take "courageous politicians with the decency and courage to stand up to the National Rifle Association" to end the high number of deaths.

Business Insider contacted the NRA for comment but did not receive an immediate response.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-us-police-kill-so-many-people-2014-8#ixzz3FWEaxIQv
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:16 pm
@FBM,
Cops in the UK don't carry firearms, and that's the reason they don't kill civilians for good or bad. When cops in the US carry firearms, they tend to use it when it's really not needed in too many cases.

It's probably sensible to have more cops in communities where crime is common such as Oakland, Detroit, St Louis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, and Cleveland. It's about cost vs benefit. Our town, Sunnyvale, California, has the right combination; our officers are both police and firemen.



FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, I don't dispute that. I was just disputing some bogus data, ie that only 400 people are killed by cops in the US annually.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:27 pm
@FBM,
Another issue that seems to contradict the statistics are the number of whites who owns guns vs blacks, and why more blacks are killed by the police.

According to Pew Research, the percentage of those who said they owned guns:
Whites 41%
Blacks 19%
Hispanics 20%

giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:31 pm
From the Urban dictionary...

FBM:
FAT BALD MAN
FUTURE BABY MAMMA
FOOD BABY MISCARRAGE

SOME OTHERS:
FASCIST BLACK MAN
FETAL BOWEL MOVEMENT
FULL BODY MASSAGE (you degenerate)
FOOD and BEVERAGE MANAGER

I'm going with the first one I think.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Seems like a lot of things aren't adding up. Those who claim that there is no problem have a lot of explaining to do. And empty rhetoric, fallacious reasoning and skewed numbers won't cut it. A whole bunch of people very clearly see a big problem.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:34 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
Cops on the street in England do not carry firearms.


BULLSHIT.
Maybe out in the small country town but in the city they carry...CONCEALED.


Now this is where the bleeding heart liberals will start opining about gun control...CAUSE THEY WANT ALL THE GUNS GONE!

Is this your hidden agenda FBM????
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 09:57 pm
@giujohn,
I'm a gun owner.

My only agenda is to bring legitimate data up for discussion.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/bored.gif
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 01:28 pm
@FBM,
I guess like the bible and religion, only Christian right conservative own guns. Its kind of ridiculous the level of discourse this country has gotten. Liberals seem to bend over backwards to prove their "American Pie" credentials. Sort of like the Allison Grimes ad.

Grimes: 'I'm not Barack Obama ... and Mitch, that's not how you hold a gun'
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 08:00 pm
@revelette2,
Yeah, what is also so sad - beyond the fact that people do seriously believe the stereotypes - is that politicians know that they have to cater to those who think like that in order to have a chance at getting elected. Wouldn't it be great if politicians had to stick to facts and statistics, rather than feed endless streams of twisted, emotive rhetoric to the public? I don't want politicians trying to manipulate my emotions; I want to listen to their logic.
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 08:59 pm
@giujohn,
ah, ad hominem, the first resort of the intellectually bereft.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 09:22 pm
@hingehead,
On the head. That's where you hit that nail.


Anyhoo, this video was surprisingly timely. If you're not into the comedy, skip ahead to 1:20:



Comedy or not, she's talking with the experts, who openly admit that they have no idea how many people are killed by police annually. Not a clue. The data just don't exist.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2014 04:36 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
I'm a gun owner.

My only agenda is to bring legitimate data up for discussion.


Everyone who believes that, stand on your head.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2014 04:41 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
ah, ad hominem, the first resort of the intellectually bereft.


Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning. So dumb ass...If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I get out the orange sauce.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2014 06:32 pm
@FBM,
You wrote,
Quote:
I don't want politicians trying to manipulate my emotions; I want to listen to their logic.


Because you are such a small minority that thinks as you do, you don't have a prayer now or in the future. Politics and logic is an oxymoron.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 12:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
It does appear that way, doesn't it?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 01:02 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Quote:
I'm a gun owner.

My only agenda is to bring legitimate data up for discussion.


Everyone who believes that, stand on your head.


http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/hapkido1996/37_zps3ae50676.gif

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10686909_10152749874558189_7566046974906046598_n.jpg
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 01:06 am
@FBM,
If we were in a democratic free society we would know precisely how many citizens the agents of the state have killed, and we would know how and why and we would investigate each one and almost certainly at least occasionally ring an agent of the state up for killing a citizen without a good reason.

This government is all hot to trot to change the way we have sex, it demands that we conform to its demands and it claims to have the right to tell us that we cant have sex but at the same time this government will not even have the decency to tell us how many citizens it kills each year.

That folks, is fucked up.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 01:26 am
@hawkeye10,
It's puzzling. According to something I posted earlier, there's a law that tells the police to keep track of exactly that, but somehow it's a "law" that is non-binding. The police departments are free to do it or not, and the overwhelming majority of them are not. Wtf.
 

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