17
   

I saw a white man with a gun. I heard a policeman saying, "Place the weapon down on the ground, ple

 
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I take a dimmer view, I think prisoners are abused because we enjoy exercising our sadism.


Based on my visits to prisons (as part of my former job), I'd have to say that, yes, some/many of those guards seemed to enjoy and be proud of the most severe measures that they employed against the inmates. So much for rehabilitation.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:31 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

I take a dimmer view, I think prisoners are abused because we enjoy exercising our sadism.


Based on my visits to prisons (as part of my former job), I'd have to say that, yes, some/many of those guards seemed to enjoy and be proud of the most severe measures that they employed against the inmates.


Think too about the lack of interest in the subject by the citizens. Think about the recent botched execution in Kansas I think it was where the result was that the condemned man was tortured and the majority response from the citizens was " GOOD!". Guards abuse prisoners because they can, because they have reason to believe that this is what the people want, and they know for damn sure that they will never be punished.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:31 pm
Seems that it's pretty systemic, too:

Quote:
Police Chief Asked Medical Examiner to Change Autopsy Report To Match Officer Testimony, He Does

Late last month, 22-year-old Mark Salazar was shot 6 times and killed by Sgt. Ryan Stark of the Oklahoma City Police Department.

When the story first hit the news, police told the media a number of lies about the case. The police said that Salazar was under the influence of drugs and that he had stolen a car, but both of those claims were later proven to be false.

Many other details about the case were also highly disputed, including the events which led up to Salazar’s death.

The police say that Stark fired his weapon because he felt that he was in danger, and they also claim that Salazar was in the middle of stabbing a k-9 unit when he was shot.

The k-9 unit allegedly died just after the incident, but the police have not put forward any hard evidence to support these claims, aside from the dead body of the dog. Initially, the medical examiner found that Salazar was attempting to flee while he was shot, and that he was shot six times, including four times in the back. The death was ruled a homicide.

The family hired an independent examiner to do an autopsy and they came to the same conclusion. These findings contradicted the version of events as told by police department. So Police Chief Bill Citty, with the Oklahoma City Police Department, called the medical examiner and ordered them to take another look at their report.

The medical examiner took another look at the report and found that everything did in fact go exactly as the police had described it, and apologized for the “errors” on their initial report.

“Mark had been shot in the back multiple times from a distance. Not while he was on the ground wrestling with a dog, but as he was attempting to flee. There was a larger concern about the dog than there was about the human life,” Noble McIntyre, the Salazar family’s attorney said.

Sgt. Stark is currently on a paid suspension pending the outcome of the investigation.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-chief-requests-medical-examiner-change-autopsy-report-match-officer-testimony/
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Think too about the lack of interest in the subject by the citizens.


In my experience, most of that is due to the "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon.

Quote:
Think about the recent botched execution in Kansas I think it was where the result was that the condemned man was tortured and the majority response from the citizens was " GOOD!".


Sorry, but I didn't hear that response over here. But I have to scratch my head over the concept of killing people to prove that killing people is wrong. Wtf.
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:42 pm
If you invested your time redistributing your anger and pride to the evils of politics, you'd make a breakthrough that is many times greater than what you've been doing here.

This is a branch - attack the tree.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:49 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
In my experience, most of that is due to the "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon.


Are u kidding? Journalists and government reports routinely document the abuse in the prisons, they get yawned at. Cop shows which have as their main plotline getting the citizen they want by hook or crook have been rating kings for years. There used to be several shows a cable that actually go into real prisons. Bounty hunter shows were popular for a time.

We get off on this. We know exactly what happens, and we approve.
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's an underestimated point, sadly. If only people knew what animals they truly are.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 02:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
In my experience, most of that is due to the "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon.


Are u kidding? Journalists and government reports routinely document the abuse in the prisons, they get yawned at. Cop shows which have as their main plotline getting the citizen they want by hook or crook have been rating kings for years. There used to be several shows a cable that actually go into real prisons. Bounty hunter shows were popular for a time.

We get off on this. We know exactly what happens, and we approve.


Not sure how this contradicts what I said. There's a big difference between the thrill of chasing someone down in public and the daily grind of what happens behind bars.
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 03:00 pm
@FBM,
Apparently you didn't get the memo.

People enjoy watching others suffer - they may give you all the excuses in the world to convince you and themselves that they don't, but since when were people ever comfortable with their "other side"; the "animal within"?

People are very hungry and they are not the smiling, loving and happy people you want to see - deep down, they are rotten cores.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 03:16 pm
There is a story in the New Yorker this week about a teen who never got a trial after (if I remember) thirty five visits before a judge over several years, 35 or whatever delays, much time in solitary.
It was dismissed after that.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/law-3

I assume there are two sides to this, but - never mind my sympathy for the incarcerated guy, what is going on with those courts?

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 03:17 pm
@ossobuco,
New York, one of the major places on the planet, cannot get a good court system in action?
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 03:37 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Quote:
If you invested your time redistributing your anger and pride to the evils of politics, you'd make a breakthrough that is many times greater than what you've been doing here.

This is a branch - attack the tree.


Well said...but it falls on deaf ears. His agenda is clear. He offers no alternatives just a desire to sully the image of all white police officers and perpetuate the myth that they are all racicists cruising the streets looking for any oppotunity to shoot a black guy.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 07:15 pm
@giujohn,
If you and/or One Fried Mind were able or willing to bring to the table 1/10th the statistics and data that I have, I would listen. However, you've got nothing but empty rhetoric and ad hom attacks. I can't find much reason to pay attention to what either of you say, seeing as how it's so subjective and insubstantial. And, I might add, increasingly racist.

Meanwhile, back in Mayberry:

Quote:
Black and stopped in Utah

Speeding San Diegan subjected to drug search can sue
By Don Bauder, June 23, 2014

In a dispute that has been dragging on for six years, a judge of the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled Friday, June 20, that San Diegan Sherida Felder can go ahead with a racial-profiling suit against two Utah policemen.

In 2008, Felder, an African-American, was driving two then-teenagers to a football game in Colorado. Utah police pulled her over for speeding and wanted to search the car for drugs. Felder wouldn't give them permission, and police held them for two and a half hours in a futile search for drugs.

In 2009, Felder sued for racial profiling. On June 20, the appellate judge ruled that police did not have cause to search her car, which presents the opportunity for Felder's civil suit against the police for racial profiling. However, the judge said there was insufficient evidence for him to rule on whether there was racial profiling.


http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/jun/23/ticker-black-and-stopped-utah/#
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 07:25 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

New York, one of the major places on the planet, cannot get a good court system in action?


Quote:
June 23, 2011: People not ready, request 1 week.
August 24, 2011: People not ready, request 1 day.
November 4, 2011: People not ready, prosecutor on trial, request 2 weeks.
December 2, 2011: Prosecutor on trial, request January 3rd.
...
June 29, 2012: People not ready, request one week.
September 28, 2012: People not ready, request two weeks.
November 2, 2012: People not ready, request one week.
December 14, 2012: People not ready, request one week.
...



That is unbelievable. Three freaking years at Rikers without a trial.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 07:59 pm
I don't know anything about this source, and I don't particularly like the look of it, but here's something I found:

Quote:
Police Brutality… just another isolated incident, right?

Usually, when there is an act of police brutality, some people tend to brush it off saying that it is an isolated incident. Below I have posted several videos that demonstrate it is actually the opposite. It is a daily occurrence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ouhkzXKEP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSpHdAD858
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TddzcdiB77g
...


Anyway, there are 15 videos of police brutality in the link: http://www.emancipatedhuman.com/2014/10/06/police-brutality-just-another-isolated-incident-right/
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 10:48 pm
@FBM,
I read that article with dismay, for this guy, but also for all incarcerated. They are not all saints, but they are due justice. Scary scary stuff.
Something big is wrong with the system in place.
Big wrong in the Bronx.

FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 10:55 pm
@ossobuco,
True that. And he was just a teenager. Guilty or not, he should have been treated much better than that.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 11:00 pm
@FBM,
I'm slow to youtube for computer reasons but also not trusting. I'm horrified enough with the article I posted.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 11:10 pm
@FBM,
I lived there when I was eight, upper class then, probably average for the doers and shakers. That didn't last, in my family. Down hill was the mode. Anyway, at eight, I lived in nice Bronx. But I can read and have.



FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2014 11:33 pm
@ossobuco,
I've been up there twice. I would give it mixed reviews. Wink Actually, though, I didn't run into any problems with individuals. Quite to the contrary. It's just the traffic, the pace and population density that I couldn't take for long.

As for the people, I have an anecdote that opened up my eyes. I'd taken a girlfriend by motorcycle from MS to upstate NY. I dropped her off and headed back, but my drive chain broke. I was sitting there on the side of the road thinking about how screwed I was (this was long before cell phones), and to my surprise, within about 30 minutes 3 people had stopped to help. One went to get a tow truck, another went to get a new chain (wouldn't let me pay in advance), and the third was a highway patrolman who called my girlfriend and let them know what was going on (had a small bag of weed on me, so I was secretly sweating bullets). That changed my way of thinking about New Yorkers, whether city or state.
 

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