22
   

Realistic preparations for US Isis attack

 
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 01:19 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
A large nuclear war would be much worse than any depression


But it won't happen It is impossible because of technological and political reasons.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 09:22 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:
oralloy wrote:
A large nuclear war would be much worse than any depression.

But it won't happen It is impossible because of technological and political reasons.

It's not impossible. There are no technological barriers.

There are political barriers, and they are substantial, but that does not mean the barriers can't be surmounted if humanity decides to be stupid all at once.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 09:55 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
There are political barriers, and they are substantial, but that does not mean the barriers can't be surmounted if humanity decides to be stupid all at once.
Europe is not going to be stupid enough to defend Ukraine from Putin, and Putin is not going to be stupid enough to try to take a NATO country.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 10:13 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Europe is not going to be stupid enough to defend Ukraine from Putin,

NATO soldiers will not engage in direct military conflict with Russian soldiers, but the West is going to give lots of aid to Kiev, and that may well expand to include military equipment and even weapons.


hawkeye10 wrote:
and Putin is not going to be stupid enough to try to take a NATO country.

If Putin gets away with taking eastern and southern Ukraine and then part of Moldova, he will give serious thought to attempting the same thing with Latvia/Estonia/Lithuania.

If NATO has taken strong measures to ensure the defense of the Baltic states, Putin will likely decide to pass.

However, if NATO does not present a strong defense, it is entirely possible that Putin will send unmarked soldiers into those countries and then dare us to do something about it.

I've recommended that NATO present a strong defense in order to deter Putin from such aggression. However the anti-war creeps always pounce on me for doing so. Perhaps they want a nuclear war.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 10:22 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
NATO soldiers will not engage in direct military conflict with Russian soldiers, but the West is going to give lots of aid to Kiev, and that may well expand to include military equipment and even weapons.
no they will not, it would not change the outcome and it would piss Russia and China off. The Ukrainians are not smart enough or organized enough to use military aid effectively.

Quote:
I've recommended that NATO present a strong defense in order to deter Putin from such aggression. However the anti-war creeps always pounce on me for doing so. Perhaps they want a nuclear war.
We would defend most of the nations in the region but despite all of the chatter nobody cares much about Ukraine. THe Ukrainians best accept this fact and sit down to get the best deal they can from Russia.
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 10:32 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
It's not impossible. There are no technological barriers.


There are. You can't use an atomb bomb on any spot on the earth and there is even more to it. Because there are only certain spots you can calculate, years in advance, were the bomb is going to explode.
You can't just randomly drop atomic bombs, just won't work.

Quote:
There are political barriers, and they are substantial, but that does not mean the barriers can't be surmounted if humanity decides to be stupid all at once.


?
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 10:39 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
You can't just randomly drop atomic bombs, just won't work.

Einstein has been reincarnated.http://www.acidpulse.net/images/smilies/daydream.gif
Quehoniaomath
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 10:53 am
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Einstein has been reincarnated.


Strange reaction. btw I don't want to be compared with the village idiot einstein,
who got lost in his extremely stupid equations,

Anyway, actually, of course that is not the point. The point is if what I am writing is true or not, but that seems to be a very difficult point for some.Wink
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 12:09 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
Strange reaction.

Not really, you stated the obvious, something everyone has known since the first bomb was dropped.
LvB
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 12:18 pm
@coldjoint,
Budweiser is my new Linda
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 12:39 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Not really, you stated the obvious, something everyone has known since the first bomb was dropped.


"every one has known" doesn't mean ****.
(the fallacy of popularity)
it is simply not true.

To detonate an atomic bomb, it can only be done at specific places at specific locations, and with a certain configuration with regards to the earth and the sun.
And because of that, a completely full blown atomic bomb war is impossible, because where an atomic bomb can explode can be calculated years and years before it can happen.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 02:54 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
To detonate an atomic bomb, it can only be done at specific places at specific locations, and with a certain configuration with regards to the earth and the sun.


What brand of bullshit is it that?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:19 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
To detonate an atomic bomb, it can only be done at specific places at specific locations, and with a certain configuration with regards to the earth and the sun.


What brand of bullshit is it that?


Jesus H. Christ...Q has finally caused me to agree with you, coldjoint.

There is no justice on the Internet.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:22 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Now that Romeo Fabulini has been gone for 2 weeks, l'll bet you could steal his naughty step and he'd never know.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Jesus H. Christ...Q has finally caused me to agree with you, coldjoint.

There is no justice on the Internet.


Frank, life's a bitch, and then you die.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:40 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:
There are. You can't use an atomb bomb on any spot on the earth and there is even more to it. Because there are only certain spots you can calculate, years in advance, were the bomb is going to explode.
You can't just randomly drop atomic bombs, just won't work.

Did ossobuco help you come up with that goofy bit of nonsense?

For the record, we no longer drop A-bombs. We fire missiles tipped with thermonuclear warheads.


Quehoniaomath wrote:
oralloy wrote:
There are political barriers, and they are substantial, but that does not mean the barriers can't be surmounted if humanity decides to be stupid all at once.

?

Most governments will go to very great lengths to avoid a nuclear war.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:40 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:
To detonate an atomic bomb, it can only be done at specific places at specific locations, and with a certain configuration with regards to the earth and the sun.
And because of that, a completely full blown atomic bomb war is impossible, because where an atomic bomb can explode can be calculated years and years before it can happen.

Did ossobuco help you come up with that goofy bit of nonsense?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:40 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Not really, you stated the obvious, something everyone has known since the first bomb was dropped.

Actually no. Look again. He is saying that nuclear weapons will only go off if the astrological signs are correct for the target location.

EDIT: Nevermind. I see you caught on the second time he said it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:45 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Quehoniaomath wrote:
To detonate an atomic bomb, it can only be done at specific places at specific locations, and with a certain configuration with regards to the earth and the sun.

What brand of bullshit is it that?

It sounds a bit like ossobuco's nutty babbling, if you've ever heard her try to describe how an A-bomb works.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2014 03:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
oralloy wrote:
NATO soldiers will not engage in direct military conflict with Russian soldiers, but the West is going to give lots of aid to Kiev, and that may well expand to include military equipment and even weapons.

no they will not, it would not change the outcome and it would piss Russia and China off. The Ukrainians are not smart enough or organized enough to use military aid effectively.

We don't like that Russia and China are a negative force in the world. If it annoys them that the US takes action to curb their negative influence, I see that as a strong positive and a reason to go ahead and do it.

It is true that the Ukrainian military currently lacks a lot of fighting skill, but we could begin training them at the same time that we arm and equip them. No need for US troops to go into Ukraine either; groups of Ukrainian troops could travel to western Europe for their training.

As far as changing the outcome, maybe, maybe not. True that it would take a lot to boost the Ukrainian military to a level that could throw the Russians out of Ukrainian territory. But it would be much easier to merely boost the Ukrainians to a level where they could prolong the fight indefinitely, slowly bleeding the Russians dry like in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Even if the war did result in an eventual total victory for Russia, every additional day that Russia spends fighting in Ukraine is one more day that some other country will have without a Russian invasion, and is one more day that NATO can use to bolster our defenses in the Baltic states.


hawkeye10 wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I've recommended that NATO present a strong defense in order to deter Putin from such aggression. However the anti-war creeps always pounce on me for doing so. Perhaps they want a nuclear war.

We would defend most of the nations in the region but despite all of the chatter nobody cares much about Ukraine. THe Ukrainians best accept this fact and sit down to get the best deal they can from Russia.

I think we care about Ukraine. We just don't want to send our own troops head to head with Russian troops. The specter of "unintentional escalation to total nuclear war" still looms over strategic thinking.

That thinking (no head to head fighting) has its merits, but it has the downside that Putin can send his soldiers into a country and then we reliably shy away from sending in our own soldiers. When Putin is done with Ukraine, if he senses the slightest bit of weakness in NATO, he is going to try pulling the same stunt and send unmarked soldiers into one of the Baltic NATO countries.

It would be to our advantage if Putin sees no weakness in NATO when that day comes.

I don't think the Russians are actually offering the Ukrainians any deals. Their "negotiations" are just propaganda to try to weaken western resolve.
 

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