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Americans in Iraq Attacked W Bomb Containing Nerve Gas (WMD)

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 09:50 am
McGentrix wrote:
You don't think he is merely being over-dramatic to reinforce his point?


No. I think he is exaggerating and falsifying to make his point.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 09:52 am
McGentrix wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Think of happy some of these right wingnuts would be if a nuclear bomb went off in Iraq.


That wouldn't make me happy.


I don't believe you. Sorry. I really don't.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 10:38 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Think of happy some of these right wingnuts would be if a nuclear bomb went off in Iraq.


That wouldn't make me happy.


I don't believe you. Sorry. I really don't.


<shrugs>

What would make me happy would be an end to the resistance in Iraq, followed by the capture of Bin Laden and Massoui (sp?). Then, once Iraq was under it's own control, which would probably take no more than 6 months from now, the US military would leave Iraq and we could end this affair in Iraq once and for all.

That would make me happy.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 10:45 am
McG

And end to the resistance is the big problem, and no solution appears to be in sight. Capture of bin Laden would, I think, have little or no effect now.

I wish it would be so too, but Rumsfeld and team have made too many big mistakes. I don't say that as a partisan matter, but as what I'm pretty certain historians in the military and in the academic world will conclude.
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infowarrior
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 11:16 am
As always, this administration is shameless.

They are just so pathetically desperate to get us to believe this alleged Sarin bomb is not only a WMD, but that it is Sarin at all.

From the boys who brought us:

faked Niger reports claiming Saddam tried to buy yellow cake

fake soldier letters from the battlefield

falsified pre-war intelligence

the attempt to cover-up Abu Ghraib

I mean, is anyone home upstairs in this administration?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 12:26 pm
Hot off the presses!!!!

COITUS INTERRUPTUS FELLAS!!!!!

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=1873574&nav=0oa8AfMQ


Sorry McGentrix I know the thought of this is disturbing to you Crying or Very sad
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 12:32 pm
I guess we will both have to wait on the final results, won't we?

Quote:
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 12:52 pm
I'm not that interested...I have nothing tied up in it past my sorrow for the fact the bomb killed some people.....one little sarin bomb does not found WMD's and justification for bushs' big iraqi adventure make.....
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:03 pm
Question for the lefties here:

How many sarin-containing bombs would it take to constitute WMD?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:07 pm
I don't know, you seemed interested in your "COITUS INTERRUPTUS FELLAS!!!!!" post.

No one has claimed (that I have read) that this DOES constitute any smoking gun, but it does prove that WMD's do exist in Iraq. Hopefully this is not indicitive of a new tactic by the bad guys and they do NOT have a cache of these.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:27 pm
Tarantulas wrote:
Question for the lefties here:

How many sarin-containing bombs would it take to constitute WMD?


Thats easy Taran...

One more than the total number we find...

If we find 50 ... they will need to see 51.

If we find 1050 ... they will need to see 1051 to be satisfied.

And even if we find 10,000 they will say that now we need to find the weapons that would deliver them. (and then claim we destroyed all of Saddam's artillery pieces)


Its just like their crap with the economy, it is never good enough.

They claim we have lost over a million jobs.

We show them 3 straight months of huge employment gains.

They claim that the jobs aren't 'good enough' and are in the wrong areas.

We show that the job market is moving into different areas (away from manufacturing where low income countries have an advantage and into the high tech fields) and that employment is on the rise.

They say one of the following:
1) OH YEAH ! (sticking their tongues out) Well YOUR President stole the election, so there!

2) OH YEAH ! (sticking their tongues out) Well YOUR President lied about WMDs in Iraq, so there!

3) OH YEAH ! (sticking their tongues out) Well you are just a bunch of poopyheads, so there!

We then say ... what about the economy improving, I thought we were talking about that?

They won't listen because they have made a fort out of the couch cushions and are hiding inside their 'No Republicans Allowed' safe place.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:29 pm
Fedral wrote:
They won't listen because they have mad a fort out of the couch cushions and are hiding inside their 'No Republicans Allowed' safe place.



Laughing Laughing
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:33 pm
Tarantrix- Hey fellas, help me out here...and I mean it sincerely. Didn't we already know they had quantities of sarin. Isn't that what was used to poison thousands of Kurds? Weren't we looking for nuclear weapons as WMD's? My memory is sketchy here.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:36 pm
Conservative humor: an oxymoron.
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:40 pm
Hee hee!! Strange but true. And it's only a small step from there to accusing the US of planting that shell.

Quote:
May 18, 2004

The front page of the Los Angeles Times has three stories about Iraq: "Suicide Attack Kills Head of Iraqi Council," "Death of Prisoner Detailed in testimony," and "Pervasive Abuse Alleged by Freed Detainees, Red Cross."

The attempted use of a WMD against American troops made page A8, with this lead paragraph: "An artillery shell rigged to explode in a roadside bomb in Baghdad instead dispersed a tiny amount of sarin, a nerve gas that Saddam Hussein produced in the 1980s, U.S. officials said Monday." Paragraph 8 of the story reads: "'What is of concern is that there may be more of them out there," said a U.S. official, who requested anonymity."

What apparently concerns American elite media --blue state media like the Times of both coasts-- is that any credibility be attached to the idea that Saddam did in fact conceal WMD, just as he buried MIGs in the sand. Rather than confront any implications of the attempted use of the WMD, the Times editors buried the story deeper than the MIG, and covered the front page with anti-war, anti-Bush headlines. They even tossed in an Enron header on page one: "Enron Tapes Hints Chiefs Knew About Power Ploys."

In a lengthy praise of himself and his newspaper delivered to an academic audience a couple of weeks back, Los Angeles Times editor John Carroll blasted Fox News as pseudo-journalists. One part of his indictment read this way:

"You may be familiar with a study published last October on the public misconceptions about the war in Iraq. One of those misconceptions was that Saddam's weapons of mass destruction had been found."

"Another was that links had been proven between Iraq and Al Qaeda."

"A third was that world opinion favored the idea of the U.S. invading Iraq."

"Among people who primarily watched Fox News, 80 percent believed one or more of those myths. That's 25 percentage points higher than the figure for viewers of CNN -- and 57 percentage points higher than that for people who got their news from public broadcasting."

Put aside Carroll's wildly amusing elevation of the ideology of viewers into a commentary on the content of their preferred channels --as though PBS viewers are going to believe any reason for invading Iraq-- or his repetition of the talking points of the left, as though it is not rational to believe there were ties between Saddam and al Qaeda. [Note to Carroll's believers: Read this. It is only a "myth" if you hate Bush so much as to blind yourself to the obvious.]

The crime Carroll accuses Fox News of committing is of leaving "its audience so deeply in the dark."

What percentage of Los Angeles Times readers knows that a sarin shell --a WMD-- was employed against American troops? And since the paper chose not to report at all the second major story on WMD confirmed by the military yesterday --the use of a mustard gas shell against American troops a couple of weeks earlier-- what percentage of Times' readers will know about that?

John Carroll wrote his own indictment in his windy speech. The Times is concealing the news it doesn't like, leaving its readers "deeply in the dark." But don't expect the courage to admit as much from Carroll or any of his staff. It is a "get Bush" operation on Spring Street, every bit as obvious as the "get Arnold" frenzy of last fall. It will have the same effect as well.

People know. They don't believe the bigs, even when they agree with the agenda of the agenda journalism within.

If future attacks using WMD are successful, however, I wonder if we will have another commission to explore why a U.S. news media turned its eyes from the story that was sitting right in front of them. Maybe John Carroll will give a lecture on that topic when that day comes.

UPDATE: Contrast the non-coverage of the WMD story in the Los Angeles Times with this account by the Washington Times' Bill Gertz, widely regarded as one the finest military/national security reporters in the U.S. Then ask yourself whether the military community in Southern California, especially the families and comrades of Marines from Camp Pendleton serving in Iraq, deserved this sort of report from their paper of record. Or do you think they wanted a front page story on Enron?

Link
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:48 pm
panzade wrote:
Tarantrix- Hey fellas, help me out here...and I mean it sincerely. Didn't we already know they had quantities of sarin. Isn't that what was used to poison thousands of Kurds? Weren't we looking for nuclear weapons as WMD's? My memory is sketchy here.

We were looking for nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons of mass destruction. Supposedly Saddam had destroyed all of them, including all the chemical weapons, whether recently created or old munitions from the Iran-Iraq war. There were discrepancies in his accounting numbers, so many intelligence agencies concluded he was hiding some WMD somewhere. That was one of the reasons (although not the only reason) the Coalition went to war against Saddam. Since the Coalition has found little WMD evidence, the lefties are saying that invalidates the entire war. Now that we've found chemical weapons, they're saying the shell didn't really have Sarin in it (that's been confirmed now), or it did have Sarin but it was old, or it did have Sarin but one artillery shell isn't enough to confirm the presence of WMD.

It doesn't matter who sold it to him and it doesn't matter how old it is. It's nerve gas, and that's a weapon of mass destruction.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:49 pm
panzade wrote:
Tarantrix- Hey fellas, help me out here...and I mean it sincerely. Didn't we already know they had quantities of sarin. Isn't that what was used to poison thousands of Kurds? Weren't we looking for nuclear weapons as WMD's? My memory is sketchy here.


Did not want to see your question ignored, so I thought I would try to reply. My memory may not be any better than yours, but from the best I can recall, at no time did the admin. equate WMD's with nuclear weapons per se. Now I admit I could be wrong, and if I am I am sure at least one of the admins. many opponents here will point that out. But I do think the admin's WMD belief was more toward chemical weapons and possible bacterial weapons.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:53 pm
Thanks Rat...appreciate your thoughtfulness. I ragged on Tarantrix on an earlier thread about WMD's because I thought they jumped the gun. Now I'm waiting to see if I might have erred.
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:56 pm
Heh, "Tarantrix," that's cute.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 01:58 pm
Tarantulas wrote:
Question for the lefties here:

How many sarin-containing bombs would it take to constitute WMD?


Just one.

More relevant questions are:

1) Do you know where the bomb came from? It seems like you are merely assuming it's from Saddam's arsenal.

2) Does it matter to you whether this was a low level munition that we'd already known about and of the same caliber that Bush's administration had dismissed earlier?

Haggling over the definition of WMD is plain silly, a cow pie in the field can have "WMD-related-activity". What is relevant is whether or not your are trying to use this find as a casus beli. Are you saying the invasion of Iraq is justified based on this alleged find?

Because if so there are questions to be answered, namely the origin of this weapon. See, if it doesn't even come from Iraq (which I doubt) it's not going to make much of a case for invading Iraq.

If it was in private hands it again does not make much of a case for a casus beli based on it.

Do note that sarin is not too difficult to get, remember the 1995 subway attacks. The IED in Iraq is fuleling several leaps of faith here.

1) That it was, in fact, a sarin shell. Earlier reports have turned out to be wrong and this might as well.

2) That this was the threat referenced in our motives to invade. For this to even qualify it would have to have been owned by the Iraqi government and even then it would be laughable to try to portray this as a threat worthy of a casus beli.
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