28
   

More American War in Iraq?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2014 12:36 am
Quote:
SPIEGEL: What do you think will ultimately become of Syria?

Brahimi: It will be become another Somalia. It will not be divided, as many have predicted. It's going to be a failed state, with warlords all over the place.

SPIEGEL: What can the international community do, Europe in particular? What should Germany do?

Brahimi: The people in your governments know how dangerous this crisis is and how important it is to support a political solution.
SPIEGEL: Are you referring to the 320 Germans that have thus far joined ISIS?

Brahimi: And to the 500 or 600 French, the 500 or 600 British, and so on and so forth. There are several thousand non-Syrians. My goodness! These are your nationals that are training in Syria and that are part of ISIS, which believes that you have got to build an Islamic state all over the world, starting with Berlin. That's a threat to you, isn't it?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-former-un-peace-envoy-to-syria-lakhdar-brahimi-a-974036.html

There are thousand more learning a trade in Syria right now. Europe has reason to worry about what they will be doing in a few years.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2014 02:55 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
What is not clear is why the West was OK with Yugoslavia breaking down, but has resisted the same solution for Iraq.

The notion of an independent Kurdish state on their southern border gives Turkey a bad case of heartburn, and we humor Turkey despite knowing that the Kurds deserve our support.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2014 08:21 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

The notion of an independent Kurdish state on their southern border gives Turkey a bad case of heartburn, and we humor Turkey despite knowing that the Kurds deserve our support.


oralloy finally gets ONE right. The devil has his parka on.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2014 08:58 pm
ISIL (not ISIS) is choreographed, and while all your attention is focused on the (right hand) the (left hand) scores a goal...
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 11:47 am
Sunni militants capture Iraqi city near Syria

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that American drone strikes are an option in a bid to halt the dramatic sweep by insurgents over a swath of Iraq. He also said the Obama administration is willing to talk with Iran and does not rule out potential military cooperation between the two rivals to stop the rampage.

Already, the commander of Iran's elite Quds Force, Gen. Ghasem Soleimani, is in Iraq, consulting with officials on how to roll back the al-Qaida-breakaway group leading the insurgent charge, known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Iraqi security officials said. They said the U.S. government was notified in advance of Soleimani's visit.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, also said that U.S. aircraft have in recent days flown reconnaissance missions over Iraq to gather intelligence on the militants' positions.

Soleimani has been inspecting Iraqi defenses and reviewing plans with top commanders and Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite militias, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the visit. He set up an operations room to coordinate militias.

He also visited the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala south of Baghdad, home to the most revered Shiite shrines, and areas west of Baghdad where government forces have faced off with Islamic militants for months. The Islamic State has threatened to march to Baghdad, Karbala and Najaf.

Soleimani is one of the most powerful figures in Iran's security establishment. His Quds Force is a secretive branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard involved in external operations. In the mid-2000s', it organized Shiite militias in a campaign of deadly violence against U.S. troops in Iraq, according to American officials. More recently, it has been involved in helping Syria's President Bashar Assad in his fight against Sunni rebels.

The militants' capture of Tal Afar on Monday was a key prize, as it sits on a main highway between the Syrian border and Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, which the Islamic State captured last week.

At the same time, further south, Islamic State fighters were battling Monday with government troops at Romanah, a village near another of Iraq's main border crossings into Syria in Sunni-majority Anbar province, according to a security official in Baghdad who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

The Islamic State already controls territory in Syria in several regions abutting the Iraqi border. Its fighters move relatively freely along with money, weapons equipment across the porous, unprotected desert border. But seizing an actual border crossing would be a major symbolic gain for the group as it tries to carve out an enclave bridging the two countries.

Tal Afar, a city of 200,000 located 420 kilometers (260 miles) northwest of Baghdad, is dominated by ethnic Turkomen, who are both Sunni and Shiite. That raises fears of new atrocities by Islamic State fighters, who brand Shiites as heretics.

Over the weekend, the group posted graphic photos purporting to show its fighters executing scores of Iraqi soldiers captured when it overran other areas the past week.

Tal Afar Mayor Abdulal Abdoul told The Associated Press that the city was taken just before dawn. One resident, Hadeer al-Abadi, said militants in pickup trucks mounted with machine guns and flying black jihadi banners were roaming the streets as gunfire rang out.

Fighting in the city began Sunday, with Iraqi government officials saying that Sunni fighters were firing rockets seized from arms depots around Mosul. They said the local garrison suffered heavy casualties and the main hospital was unable to cope with the wounded, without providing exact numbers.

The local security force fled before dawn, and local tribesman who continued to fight later surrendered to the militants, said al-Abadi as he prepared to head out of town with his family.

Another resident, Haidar al-Taie, said a warplane was dropping barrels packed with explosives on militant positions inside the city on Monday morning and many Shiite families had left the town shortly after fighting broke out on Sunday.

"Residents are gripped by fear and most of them have already left the town for areas held by Kurdish security forces," al-Abadi said. The city lies just south of the self-rule Kurdish region and many residents were fleeing to the relatively safe territory, joining an influx of refugees from Mosul and other areas that have been captured by the militants.

Some 3,000 others from Tal Afar fled west to the neighboring town of Sinjar.

Throughout the past decade since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Tal Afar was often hit by car bombings and other attacks by Sunni militants, targeting its Turkomen minority. At one point, after a major American offensive to drive out insurgents, then-President George W. Bush in 2006 declared Tal Afar a success story that shows "the outlines of the Iraq that we and the Iraqi people have been fighting for ... A free and secure people are getting back on their feet."

Since last Monday, Islamic State fighters and their insurgent allies have swept down from Mosul capturing a swath of territory at least 120 miles (200 kilometers) long toward Baghdad, and they vow to assault the capital itself. The stunning turn of events in Iraq, 2 ½ years after the U.S. military withdrew from the country is threatening long-established borders and raising alarm in Washington, Turkey and other neighboring countries.

Perhaps no greater sign of the alarm is the fact that the United States would consider working with Iran against the insurgents — despite years of efforts to limit influence by the neighboring Shiite-dominated powerhouse in Iraq.

Iran now could take a similar role in Iraq that it plays in Syria, where its support — along with that of Iraqi and Lebanese Shiite fighters on the ground — has been crucial to Assad's survival.

Kerry said Monday in an interview with Yahoo! News that Washington is "open to discussions" with Tehran if the Iranians can help end the violence and restore confidence in the Iraqi government.

Kerry also said that U.S. drone strikes "may well" be an option.

U.S. officials said earlier there is a possibility that a senior American diplomat may discuss Iraq with an Iranian delegation at nuclear talks in Vienna.

Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite militias, along with thousands of other volunteers, joined Iraq's security forces to prepare for what Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki — a Shiite close to Iran — has vowed to be a fight to liberate every inch of Iraqi territory from the insurgents.

Militants on Monday ambushed a vehicle carrying off-duty soldiers to Samarra, a city north of Baghdad that is a key battleground with the militants and is home to a much revered Shiite shrine. Six soldiers were killed and four wounded in the attack, a government official said.

Security has been tightened around Baghdad, particularly on its northern and western edges, and food prices have dramatically gone up because of the transportation disruptions on the main road heading north from the capital.

Thousands of Shiites are already heeding a call from their most revered spiritual leader, the Iranian-born Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, to take up arms against the Sunni militants.

"We will march and liberate every inch they defaced, from the country's northernmost point to the southernmost point," al-Maliki told volunteers on Sunday. The volunteers responded with Shiite chants.

On Monday, Interior Ministry spokesman, Brig. Gen. Saad Maan Ibrahim, told a press conference that Iraqi security forces killed 56 "terrorists" and wounded 21 in operations just outside the capital over the last 24 hours. He made no mention of Tal Afar and left without taking any questions.

Security at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad also was strengthened and some staff members were sent elsewhere in Iraq and to neighboring Jordan, the State Department said Sunday.

The State Department also issued a travel warning for Iraq on Sunday night, which cautioned U.S. citizens to avoid "all but essential travel to Iraq." The warning said the Baghdad International Airport was "struck by mortar rounds and rockets" and the international airport in Mosul also has been targeted.

However, a senior Baghdad airport official, Saad al-Khafagi, denied that the facility or surrounding areas have been hit. State-run Iraqiya television also denied the attack, quoting the Ministry of Transport.

___
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 04:56 pm
@mark noble,
finn wrote:
Their name, Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (The Islamic State of Iraq and Levant as they are known by some) says it all.


ISIS is perfectly acceptable.

I doubt they will cut any of our heads off for using it.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 07:00 pm
@revelette2,
Yet more dithering. Iraq is falling into chaos and Obama plays golf and gives a speech on Climate change. Kerry talks about what might happen.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 10:49 pm
U.S., Iran discuss possible cooperation against Iraq militants

Quote:
The weeklong onslaught by a marauding army of Islamist extremists in Iraq pushed the United States and its longtime rival Iran on Monday to discuss collaborating against a common foe, although the White House ruled out any joint military operations.

In another sign of the growing danger, President Obama notified Congress that he was sending up to 275 U.S. military personnel "to provide support and security for U.S. personnel and the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad," and the United Nations announced that it was moving nearly 60 staff members from Baghdad to neighboring Jordan.

Obama also is considering sending 100 or fewer special operations troops to Iraq to advise its armed forces as it battles the insurgents, according to a senior U.S. official.

After Secretary of State John F. Kerry said the United States was open to working with Iran, his top deputy, William J. Burns, met with Iranian diplomats on the sidelines of nuclear negotiations in Vienna. They discussed possible cooperation to help stop the insurgents, who have unleashed sectarian bloodletting in Iraq and are threatening stability in the Middle East.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 10:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
The weeklong onslaught by a marauding army of Islamist extremists in Iraq pushed the United States and its longtime rival Iran on Monday to discuss collaborating against a common foe, although the White House ruled out any joint military operations.

Uh oh. The anti-war kookjobs certainly aren't going to like hearing that. Laughing
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2014 11:18 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Quote:
The weeklong onslaught by a marauding army of Islamist extremists in Iraq pushed the United States and its longtime rival Iran on Monday to discuss collaborating against a common foe, although the White House ruled out any joint military operations.

Uh oh. The anti-war kookjobs certainly aren't going to like hearing that. Laughing
Obama and Maliki both placed their bets a couple of years ago when they decided that the US military should leave. They lost. Even if Iran should be able to save Maliki's ass America still loses.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 03:38 am
@hawkeye10,
What is annoying is these fools militarily are now out in the open and a US division of airborne troops could cut off their retreat routes and pin them against Baghdad and completely wiped them off the face of the earth.

For a fraction of the cost in blood and treasure that the US had already paid we could turn this around and have all such threats keeping a very low profile for the next few decades.

Plus it never a bad idea to demonstrate in such a sharp manner US military capabilities when we do decided to use them.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 04:37 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

What is annoying is these fools militarily are now out in the open


No they're not, they're embedded within the civilian population. Do you want to bomb Tikrit?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 05:03 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
No they're not, they're embedded within the civilian population. Do you want to bomb Tikrit?


Bombing and having troops on the ground is not one and the same thing first of all and sure they are embedded with the civilians along with the tanks and the other heavy military equipment that they had capture to date I would assume.

You can be an invading military force or you can be guerrilla force that blend in with the population but not both and a force of ten thousand plus with heavy equipment who are not well love by a not small percent of the local population would not be hard to find and to engage with boots on the ground.

Cutting the heads off of the locals as they had been doing is not the way to gain enough love that the local population would hide them.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 05:16 am
@BillRM,
You've got no understanding of what's going on. They're operating in Sunni areas of Iraq, mostly because Al Maliki has antagonised the Sunni population. The locals are Sunni, ISIS are cutting off the heads of Shia.

The locals may not particularly like ISIS, but they don't particularly like Al Maliki either, and are likely to let ISIS carry on so that Al Maliki can reap the benefits of his sectarianism.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 05:27 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
They're operating in Sunni areas of Iraq


The majority may very well be Sunni but the people who are getting their head cut off are not and they to live in that area also so the idea that once US troops gain control the ISIS members can just hide in the population is not at all likely.

An in order to even attempt to hide they would first need to abandoned all their heavy military equipment.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 05:32 am
@BillRM,
The idea that US troops gain control? Where did that come from? That won't happen, and unless Al Maliki takes serious steps to form a government of national unity, the moderate Sunnis will continue to view ISIS fighters as the lesser of two evils.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 05:44 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The idea that US troops gain control? Where did that come from?


Oh ISIS is going to be able to stand up to US military forces for more then a few hours and prevent the US from gaining control of the area?

If US military forces would show up ISIS had two choices fight and be wiped out in hours or after abandoning their heavy weapons trying to hide in the population to be rounded up in a few days one by one.

Once more they are out in the open where they can not hide in the local population for long and they can be wiped out in short order should we happen to have a president with the balls to order it to be done.
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 06:00 am
@BillRM,
No reason to send one more US Soldier there. Did we learn nothing over the past 20 years about this culture in the middle east?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 06:23 am
@woiyo,
Too late.

After insisting that there will be no troops on the ground in Iraq, Obama is sending 275 Special Ops guys there.

He says they are there to protect US personnel in Baghdad and to assist in evacuation if necessary.

This may or may not signal that he has no intention of assisting Iraq in defending Baghdad and will leave it to the Iranians.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2014 06:44 am
@woiyo,
Quote:
No reason to send one more US Soldier there. Did we learn nothing over the past 20 years about this culture in the middle east?


True we should had let Saddam in power however that boat had sail and allowing ISIS to take over a large area of Iraq would be as stupid as our removing Saddam in the first place even if we would need once more to send some troops in.
0 Replies
 
 

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