So you can relax now walter. You've got approval from where it really counts.
Walter
Whew, Walter, I'm so relieved you've earned emporter's blessing. I was really worried about your reputation on A2K and how you would survive such a loss to your self-esteem.
BBB
I am very much afraid that Mr. Blatham and BBB have missed the main thrust of my post.
The key idea, as far as I am concerned, is the message that Mr. Hinteler, who, as I took pains to point out, is an erudite scholarly person, cannot really make definitive comments on American Politics since he does not have the personal knowledge that comes from actually living in the country.
I find it more than slightly ridiculous that American politicians are lambasted and lampooned by those who have no knowledge of the effects of the legislation passed by those politicans since they are not living under those laws.
I know what the effects of the Patriot Act are on me and my family. However, I have noted comments by people who cannot know what those effects are except from second hand sources. I submit that second hand sources are intrinsically inferior to personal experience especially if those second hand sources appear to be politically partisan.
I think mporter misses the point.
American politics affects the rest of us, whether we like it or not.
So - I feel we are entitled to comment, especially insofar as they affect us.
Our comments, I feel, may also give the USA-centrics on this board a wider view of the world.
Having said that, I usually can't be bothered commenting, but I respect others' right to do so.
Of course, Margo, you do have a right to comment. But please be prepared to be told that it is not an informed comment.
I know little about Australia. I would never comment on politics in Australia.
Anyone may, of course, comment on politics in the USA. However, unless they could show they were in possession of the facts and, more important, the nuances which are usually revealed by the more perceptive commentators on politics in the American newspapers and magazines, the comments would be little more than ideas given by basically uninformed people.
Australian politics is significantly less likely to affect the rest of the world (except that our Prime Minister felt it was OK to send troops to Iraq!). Mostly it raises a slight rage, even in Australians, or simply sends us to sleep.
You note that you know little about Australia. Believe me, we know significantly more about America, like it or not!
The world wide effect of American politics is certainly worthy of comment, worldwide.
I would be pleased to hear your commentary on America, Margo. May I be so bold as to ask how and where you learned it?
You see, Margo, when I visited Europe thirty years ago, some of the residents in Germany, having learned of my residence in Chicago, responded with the tritest and most overdone commentary--they pointed a non-existent machine gun and make a shooting noise. I believe that they were reacting to the mythology that Chicago was a crime ridden city in which machine guns were a staple of every day life.
They were, of course, quite mistaken.
As I said, Margo, what do you know about the USA and how do you know it?
If I may say, dear sir, you are behaving like a pompous ass. I hope my hometown is still treating you well, Mporter, but where do you get off suggesting Australians or anyone else here is ill informed? Take a 3 mile hike to Lake Como, stop anywhere and poll the passers by: I promise you 80% will be less informed, about everything from the patriot act to who our leaders are, than 80% of non U.S. membership of A2K. You are rather ill informed yourself if you think the majority of the Mid West is any different. Perhaps you were in the University too long... Take a step outside and smell the ignorance. I apologize if this sounds like a slam, but you're sitting there very politely insulting some of the finest people A2K has to offer (and Bob :wink: ). I hereby request that you re-read some of the dribble you've posted here and see if you don't agree that a retraction along with an apology are quite called for.
OB
OB, I was about to post the same comments but you said it better than I ever could.
Woo Hoo!
BBB
If I was Bush, I would commit hara-kiri for bringing shame to this country; for the Iraq debacle which includes losing the lives of almost 800 of our military, and spending over 150 billion of our tax dollars for a lost cause.
Still dreaming/wishing for the Dick Cheney administration, eh C.I.?
cicerone imposter wrote:If I was Bush, I would commit hara-kiri for bringing shame to this country; for the Iraq debacle which includes losing the lives of almost 800 of our military, and spending over 150 billion of our tax dollars for a lost cause.
Gosh----isn't freedom of speech wonderful-----those 800 GIs that you so flippantly throw out as evidence, gave their lives protecting it so you could abuse it. Why don't you go climb in the pig pen with Ted Kennedy?????
perception, It seems you've missed the reason why we attacked Iraq in the first place; this administration said Saddam had WMDs that could be used against us. We now know that is far from the truth, so how in the world is our involvement in Iraq protecting Americans? Most would argue that the world is less safe today then before we attacked Iraq.
cicerone imposter wrote: Most would argue that the world is less safe today then before we attacked Iraq.
It would seem to me that YOU have missed the point. How many times have you been attacked in your little sanctuary in Silicone Valley since 9/II??????
perception wrote:cicerone imposter wrote: Most would argue that the world is less safe today then before we attacked Iraq.
It would seem to me that YOU have missed the point. How many times have you been attacked in your little sanctuary in Silicone Valley since 9/II??????
How many times was he attacked in Silicon Valley BEFORE 9/11?
Are you seriously suggesting that Silicon Valley has not been attacked because we went to war? That otherwise it would have been?
What the hell is your point?
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:perception wrote:cicerone imposter wrote: Most would argue that the world is less safe today then before we attacked Iraq.
It would seem to me that YOU have missed the point. How many times have you been attacked in your little sanctuary in Silicone Valley since 9/II??????
How many times was he attacked in Silicon Valley BEFORE 9/11?
Are you seriously suggesting that Silicon Valley has not been attacked because we went to war? That otherwise it would have been?
What the hell is your point?
BPB
My point is this: We haven't been attacked by those lunatics because we've got them occupied in Iraq. Trouble is THEY know they're cornered and are fighting to the death. Rumsfeld is too damn stubborn to realize he has the solution in the palm of his hand and won't send in enough troops to finish the job.
perception wrote:Bi-Polar Bear wrote:perception wrote:cicerone imposter wrote: Most would argue that the world is less safe today then before we attacked Iraq.
It would seem to me that YOU have missed the point. How many times have you been attacked in your little sanctuary in Silicone Valley since 9/II??????
How many times was he attacked in Silicon Valley BEFORE 9/11?
Are you seriously suggesting that Silicon Valley has not been attacked because we went to war? That otherwise it would have been?
What the hell is your point?
BPB
My point is this: We haven't been attacked by those lunatics because we've got them occupied in Iraq. Trouble is THEY know they're cornered and are fighting to the death. Rumsfeld is too damn stubborn to realize he has the solution in the palm of his hand and won't send in enough troops to finish the job.
So you believe that we would have experienced more attacks on our soil if not for this war in Iraq?
I believe the war in Iraq has diverted many of them----I believe there are still sleeper cells in the US waiting but thank god for the Patriot Act we are waiting for their next verbal organized move so we can interdict them. The really bad thing is they can strike anywhere, anytime and as of now we are in the bad position of waiting to react.
The more of the bastards we can kill over there will just that many less that we kill somewhere else.
No one took Bin Laden's declaration of war seriously until 9/II--- I and a lot of very bright folks are now taking it very seriously and I want to be on the right team for the safety of this country. I could care less about France and Germany and others and there is no doubt in my mind that eliminating Iraq as a possible sanctuary for terrorist training made this country a hell of a lot safer.
Attacking Iraq also turned Libya into a pussycat. They can't disarm fast enough.
perception, The terrorist attack on the US was made by al qaeda, not Saddam. OBL is still alive, and running his program of terrorism around the world. Saddam was 'NEVER A THREAT TO THE US.' He was contained in his own country by our "no fly zone," and the UN had weapons inspectors in Iraq looking for WMDs.
