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American Beheaded As Payback For Abu Ghraib

 
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 03:58 pm
?
Why was Berg in a Getmo orange jumpsuit?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 03:58 pm
Ain't rhetorical.

The logic of the assumption escapes me.

I mean, I suppose there ARE some people who might be able to summon a response to outrages from only one side......
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:01 pm
Re: ?
pistoff wrote:
Why was Berg in a Getmo orange jumpsuit?

Orane jumpsuits are fairly common.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:02 pm
dlowan wrote:
Ain't rhetorical.

The logic of the assumption escapes me.

I mean, I suppose there ARE some people who might be able to summon a response to outrages from only one side......


And several of them are right here on a2k...no supposition necessary....
I believe we are in the decline of America as we know it and I believe bush inc is the cause.....
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:04 pm
?
OK but why was he wearing an orange jumpsuit?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:06 pm
Because the purple ones were in the wash?
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:08 pm
hobitbob wrote:
McGEntrix, you have no one to blame for this but your president, and yourself, for supporting him. Everything that Bush has done since 11th September has played right into OBL's hands. I'm actually surprised you didn't castigate him for screaming before being killed. I would have thought that you sould have scolded him for his cowardice! Evil or Very Mad

The fault lies not with McGentrix or the president, but apparently with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in charge of the group that took the hostages and did the beheading. If we go to war with someone, and the enemy takes non-combatant hostages and executes them, the fault is with the enemy, since using non-combatants in a war zone for blackmail, and executing them is immoral. Hypothetically, if we go to war with someone, and they commit some immoral act during the war, this does not generally imply that we should not be in the war. The conclusion that we should not be in that war may or may not be correct, but the fact that the enemy murders our non-combatants, or that the war is difficult to win, certainly doesn't prove that the war shouldn't have been fought.

US forces have done something immoral, and a faction of the enemy have done something immoral. A very tiny percentage of our troops abused prisoners. A faction of the enemy, and, indeed, several factions of the enemy, take non-combatants as hostages, use them for blackmail, and kill them in particularly brutal ways. In the former case, the Bush administration has arrested and is prosecuting the soldiers who abused Iraqi prisoners, is disciplining their leaders, and has apologized for the incident. Investigations are underway to see whether such abuses might exist elsewhere. It should probably at least be mentioned that as terrible as the prisoner abuse is, it has occurred in every war. As terrible as the prisoner abuse is - and it is terrible - it is not as bad as kidnapping and murdering non-combatants. In the latter case, no one in the Arab world is investigating the murder of these non-combatants, and no one is apologizing. These kidnapping and murders are not getting much press or much condemnation compared to the prisoner abuses. The people who are criticizing us the most (e.g. the Arab press) for the prisoner abuse, generally pretty much ignore these far worse crimes. There is a double standard.

People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed. They should not be left in charge of Iraq or any portion of Iraq. They should be killed or captured. If captured, they should be tried for their actions, even as the American soldiers who abused prisoners will be tried.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:09 pm
Hmmmm - At most, BPB, I would suspect Bush Inc were a symptom....
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:10 pm
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:11 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?

Anyone who would kidnap and murder non-combatants deserves to lose, although they may belong to a larger group that does not deserve to lose.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:12 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?

Anyone who would kidnap and murder non-combatants deserves to lose, although they may belong to a larger group that does not deserve to lose.

Wow, that is the second time today that a rightard has made sense. Perhaps they are feeling ill?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:18 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?


Er - the resistance captured non-combatants and used their lives for blackmail, and murdered them in very painful, gruesome ways?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:21 pm
Some can say all they want that they are outraged at the beheading of an American citizen. But when little or no outrage is expressed while they go right on complaining about the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib and blaming it all on President Bush, it's hard to believe they are serious about anything but 'getting' President Bush.
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:21 pm
Holy Cr@p, I was just made aware of this news. I'm absolutely disgusted and completely outraged Shocked

Here's the deal: THOSE men who decapitated that young man deserve death. No if's ands or butts. The big problem is I don't want us killing a bunch of innocents by accident in the process.

Murder is murder. We've seen what "an eye for an eye" has done between Israel and Palestine. It becomes an unending cycle of bloody revenge, where its beginning becomes blurred and forgotten.

I'm reading some opinions here that lead me to believe that if we had 50 prisoners captive, and we knew 7 of them were involved in this, they would have little trouble with killing all 50 in order to get the guilty parties.

I find that disturbing. Am I off base on this observation?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:23 pm
dlowan wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?


Er - the resistance captured non-combatants and used their lives for blackmail, and murdered them in very painful, gruesome ways?

Yup. Sad
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:46 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Some can say all they want that they are outraged at the beheading of an American citizen. But when little or no outrage is expressed while they go right on complaining about the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib and blaming it all on President Bush, it's hard to believe they are serious about anything but 'getting' President Bush.


Focfyre - there may be several quite rational reasons for this.

1. The actions of the American soldiers are those of paid employees of the US government. America votes for its government, and there are mechanisms by which US citizens may hope to influence their government. Thus agitation and political comment and the working out of one's views on this matter may serve a purpose, eventually - eg convincing Bush etc that they may not be re-elected if they allow this to continue (and I think it is way wider than this one prison.)

2. Many folk here are US citizens, or citizens of countries which are in Iraq - and part of "the war against terror". The Brits here also have troops accused of torture etc. My lot have handed over captured Iraqis to the tender mercies of US guards. Therefore, many of us feel firmly implicated in what happened.

3. Few of us, I would opine, have any possible influence over the Iraqi guerillas who have been performing outrages. Few of us, I would also opine, feel, through our democracies, implicated in their actions.

4. Most of us would, I believe, feel lit likely that the military and CIA and what have you in Iraq are likely to try to hunt these people down without any prompting from our expressed opinions.

All of this leads me, for instance, to be more concerned with the actions of our governments who went into Iraq full of windy rhetoric about peace, love and brown rice, and whose actions have manifestly not matched the rhetoric.

(what a surprise)
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:48 pm
hobitbob wrote:
dlowan wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
People who would make a routine, systematic practice of kidnapping non-combatants, using their lives for blackmail, and murdering them in very painful, gruesome ways, do not deserve to succeed

So, the resistance to the Nazi occupiers in France, Belgium, the NEtherlands, Greece, Jugoslavia, etc... deserved to lose?


Er - the resistance captured non-combatants and used their lives for blackmail, and murdered them in very painful, gruesome ways?

Yup. Sad


Blimey. Looks like more history lessons for this li'l black duck are thoroughly in order.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:48 pm
I am still awaiting the cries of outrage from the Arab world over this incident. Doesn't seem to be coming...
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 04:49 pm
?
"apparently with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in charge of the group that took the hostages and did the beheading."

Apparently? How are we to know that this Web site where the video appeared is not a CIA Psy Ops Operation? If al-Z was in charge and his photo has appeared many times why is he hiding his ID in this video?
This event occured over a month ago and now shows up on the Web. As they say, "Timing is everything."
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 05:11 pm
Re: ?
pistoff wrote:
"apparently with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in charge of the group that took the hostages and did the beheading."

Apparently? How are we to know that this Web site where the video appeared is not a CIA Psy Ops Operation? If al-Z was in charge and his photo has appeared many times why is he hiding his ID in this video?
This event occured over a month ago and now shows up on the Web. As they say, "Timing is everything."


Uh, huh. Watch out for the camera in your TV.
0 Replies
 
 

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