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Is George Bush a fundamentalist christian?

 
 
septembri
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2004 10:58 pm
I am amused by the reaction of Blatham and Mesquite at Foxfyre's postings. I wonder if Blatham and Mesquite are aware that it is not politically correct to lampoon one's religious beliefs?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 06:57 am
septembri

Even now that you have a brand-spanking-new name, I won't be discussing issues with you. We don't agree on how discussions ought profitably to move, nor even on what is sensible. You may make any comment on my posts that you desire, but understand that I won't be reading nor addressing them.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 07:22 am
A further note on foxfyre's list of quotations.

I'm assuming, though not certain, that these came from a site or a publication sponsored by some church-affiliated group whose intention is to forward the notions that 1) the US is a Christian nation and 2) that the founders and their constitution are so intimately Christianity-minded that neither they nor the constitution nor America's laws and policies ought to stray far from fundamental Christian beliefs, that to do so would be false to the founders' intentions as manifested in the constitution.

The corner of all this that I find most disageeable is the zest for easy answers, the reliance on authority rather than one's own critical thought, and the apparent discomfort with complexity and multiplicity of view.

Even if all the quotations noted by Fox are valid, they must be understood along with the quotations which I've offered up (and there are many more of both sorts) and much in the way of historical information which shows the variances of religious thought (or absence of it) in early American history. There is no singularity of view. There is no adequate justification, logical or legal, to insist that America ought to provide a special dispensation to the Christian faith - or any specific version of it.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 07:29 am
Quote:
Religious Leaders Assail Amendment on Gay Marriage
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: June 4, 2004

Officials of several religious organizations, including the Presbyterian, Lutheran and Episcopal churches, sent an open letter to Congress yesterday opposing the proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.

"Although we have differing opinions on rights for same-sex couples, we believe the Federal Marriage Amendment reflects a fundamental disregard for individual civil rights and ignores differences among our nation's many religious traditions," the letter said. The United Church of Christ and the Unitarian Universalist Association, which recognize same-sex marriages, also signed the letter. So did representatives of the Anti-Defamation League, the Union for Reform Judaism, the liberal Alliance of Baptists and the Quakers.

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, helped orchestrate the letter. As United Church of Christ minister, he said, "I am disturbed that even though I can perform a religious ritual to unite a same-gender couple, the state won't recognize it because some different religious group thinks I am theologically wrong."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/04/politics/04gay.html
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 07:30 am
There are quite a few religious people amongst the American populace, aren't there?
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 08:56 am
Duh
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 08:58 am
Duh, indeed. You guys act like they should have no say in who runs the country.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 09:00 am
Equal is enough........ you guys are act like you have the only say in who runs the country! Get a life dude and quit whining all the time........
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 09:01 am
they can have all the say they deserve when they pay taxes like everyone else.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 09:03 am
BillW wrote:
Equal is enough........ you guys are act like you have the only say in who runs the country! Get a life dude and quit whining all the time........


Exclamation Laughing
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:08 am
There are lots of religious people in America. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists, Wiccans, Raelians, New Age proponents, Hindus, Hari Krishna devotees, Greek Orthodox, Hutterites, Doukobors, Sufis, Pentacostals, Satanists, etc. And each or most of these have offshoots with varying belief systems. Any suggestion that these groups hold even a single idea in common (traditional Buddism, for example, doesn't concern itself with diety) would be false.

As another example, here's a set of notions which wouldn't gain broad support from religious people in America...

Quote:
Shrek and the "transgender agenda"

President Bush's chief of faith-based activities stood in the White House the other day and said that while Iraq drew so much attention, there was another war, right here at home, we should heed: The culture war. (What better way to distract Americans from the war in Iraq than promoting cultural difference?)

Well, here's a sure sign of culture war: A right-wing group has watched a children's cartoon and sees moral Armageddon. Remember when Jerry Falwell deconstructed Tinky-Winky and saw not a purple Teletubby but the color of gay pride -- and a gay pride symbol instead of a triangle-shaped antenna?

Now, Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition is alerting parents to yet another danger lurking in children's entertainment. This time, the offender is a supposedly "transgender" bartender in Shrek 2. This bartender has stubble yet wears a dress and has "female breasts," the TVC alert warns. Confusing matters further, the bartender's voice is that of Larry King.

TVC watched the movie and details the offending passages: "During a dance scene at the end of the movie, this transgendered man expresses sexual desire for Prince Charming, jumps on him, and both tumble to the floor. In another scene in the movie, Shrek and Donkey need to be rescued from a dungeon where they are chained against the wall. The rescue is conducted by Pinocchio who is asked to lie so his nose will grow long enough for one of the smaller cartoon characters to use it as a bridge to reach Shrek and Donkey. Donkey encourages him to lie about something and suggests he lie about wearing women's underwear. When he denies wearing women's underwear, his nose begins to grow."

For all this and more, read TVC's report, "A Gender Identity Disorder Goes Mainstream," which helpfully explains "the transgender agenda and the effort to deconstruct the biological reality of male and female." DreamWorks is helping in this effort by "promoting cross dressing and transgenderism in this animated film," TVC says.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room//index.html
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:16 am
"Now, Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition is alerting parents to yet another danger lurking in children's entertainment. This time, the offender is a supposedly "transgender" bartender in Shrek 2. This bartender has stubble yet wears a dress and has "female breasts," the TVC alert warns. Confusing matters further, the bartender's voice is that of Larry King. "

I need to see this movie.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:19 am
Actually, the image had me a bit excited, until I got to the voice of Larry King part.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:24 am
Can Larry do drag? He sure can.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:27 am
Gawd! He'd be uglier than me.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:30 am
I've got to see this movie soon -- the suspense is killing me. Well, maybe I mean the suspenders. I wonder if the character in Shrek II is wearing suspenders? Seems like they would chaff his "breast." I suppose Lou Shelton has never seen male breasts. You can find them I suppose at any sauna at your local senior center.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 04:25 pm
Blatham writes:
Quote:
Even if all the quotations noted by Fox are valid, they must be understood along with the quotations which I've offered up (and there are many more of both sorts) and much in the way of historical information which shows the variances of religious thought (or absence of it) in early American history. There is no singularity of view. There is no adequate justification, logical or legal, to insist that America ought to provide a special dispensation to the Christian faith - or any specific version of it.


I agree. Nor should there be any prejudice/bigotry/bias/discrimination/unreasonable accusations against those who profess the Christian faith or any other faith.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 05:18 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Blatham writes:
Quote:
Even if all the quotations noted by Fox are valid, they must be understood along with the quotations which I've offered up (and there are many more of both sorts) and much in the way of historical information which shows the variances of religious thought (or absence of it) in early American history. There is no singularity of view. There is no adequate justification, logical or legal, to insist that America ought to provide a special dispensation to the Christian faith - or any specific version of it.


I agree. Nor should there be any prejudice/bigotry/bias/discrimination/unreasonable accusations against those who profess the Christian faith or any other faith.


You are, I suspect, being purposefully obtuse. As any number of posts above have clarified, no one here has any problem with anyone professing their faith. No one has said, "you ought not to be a christian/jew/muslim etc". No one has said "you ought not to state your beliefs publicly".
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 05:20 pm
That was a pre-emptive strike in case the thought ever entered our mind. Unless there is someone specific on the boards who has insulted the Christians. I don't endorse that at all.
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septembri
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 05:24 pm
Blatham says that he won't be discussing issues with me. I guess he thinks he has some kind of moral superiority, being from Canada and wearing a Mountie suit.
That's OK, Blatham. I know the drill. When I was fourteen years old, I walloped a particularly annoying bully on the playground.

He promptly announced that he wasn't ever going to play baseball with me again. I was relieved since he was a really poor player.
I am sorry if I scared you off with my superior arguments and documentation. I didn't realize that Mounties were sissies.
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