14
   

Was I sexually abused?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 08:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
and she didn't make sure the kids were fed and cared for

so with the logic when a babysitter abuses my kids after I hired them it is my fault, because I did not make sure abuse did not happen. Do you intend to make parents prisoners of their kids needs until they reach adulthood, never able to delegate care?

Besides this is grandma, this is kin. The whole lot of them should be in a therapists office, not a courtroom. The stick of the state is not the right tool for every job, though I realize it is heresy to say so....
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 08:44 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:

as I see it, this is one of the important reasons to speak to a local counsellor/therapist - they will know any applicable laws

and if there is ANY chance this man is continuing to abuse, he should be stopped

If there is any chance he's continuing to abuse, that's an entirely separate matter--and someone familiar with that matter, and that abuse, would have to report it because it pertains to different victims. It's unrelated to any report about what he did with his sister when he was 14.

I am familiar with the laws, and what has to be reported, the laws don't differ that much from state to state--and the intent of all the laws is the same. The purpose of the reporting is to have CPS investigate whether a child is in an abusive situation, and whether other children in the home are also in an abusive situation, so that necessary interventions can be made to stop the abuse, or remove the child from the abuse, if abuse or neglect is found to be going on.

There's nothing that CPS can do, or should do, for Katie now because her brother sexually abused her by rubbing his clothed body against hers when she was 8 and he was 14. This situation doesn't fall within the guidelines for mandated reporting--CPS has no interest, now, in hearing about what happened then, because it doesn't fall within their jurisdiction. Katie no longer needs their help or protection or intervention. If it's not a CPS matter, there is no mandated reporting.

I think Katie needs to speak to a therapist about her current sexual issues, and what they might be related to in terms of her past. That's what the therapist is going to focus on--only that. The therapist has no interest in the brother, in terms of whether what the brother did with Katie when she was 8 violated any laws, that's irrelevant to Katie's treatment. How the past relationship with the brother affects Katie now is what the therapist is interested in. The therapist has no interest in seeing the brother become involved with law enforcement now, or in finding out if he's still abusing now. The therapist's interest is only in helping Katie to understand her sexual issues, and helping her to move past them.

This whole "mandated reporting" issue simply doesn't apply in any current therapy relationship Katie might seek now--the mandatory reporting guidelines and obligations simply do not pertain to what a grown woman tells her therapist went on when she was 8. And, I am of the impression that Katie is long past the age of 8.

Katie should make an appointment with a therapist, so she can find out for herself that whatever happened when she was 8 is going to remain confidential and won't be reported to anyone.




0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 08:51 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
and if there is ANY chance this man is continuing to abuse, he should be stopped


Thank for confirming in your opinion that if the state get any hint that as children they might had play around in a mildly improper manner her brother will be but under a microscope as we can not take any chances after all.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 09:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
so with the logic when a babysitter abuses my kids after I hired them it is my fault, because I did not make sure abuse did not happen

It would be your fault if you hadn't properly checked out the babysitter before leaving your children with that person. It would be your fault if you never asked your children whether they enjoyed being with the sitter or whether anything about the sitter's behavior bothered them.

It would be your fault, if after learning the children were abused by the sitter, you continued to leave him with your children, or you didn't make sure that someone was addressing the babysitter's abusive behavior, so someone else's children wouldn't be abused.

In the situation with those children left in the cold house without food, had grandma been competent and responsible in caring for the children in the past? Just because grandma is "kin" means nothing. Why was there no heat in the home when the outside temp was frigid? Is that the way these children always lived? Why weren't the parents doing something about the heat, instead of taking off and going to a hotel? Why didn't they shop for food before they took off?

They didn't make sure the children were in an adequate living situation before they left them. Trying to heat the house by turning on an oven, is not adequate. They left the children like that and went to a hotel. These criminal charges against them seem justified, so does removing the children from their care. CPS will probably get them into treatment and into parenting classes. Now they have to investigate to see whether the parents made sure the children had adequate medical and dental care on an ongoing basis, and things of that nature. That's why we need CPS.


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 11:59 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Why was there no heat in the home when the outside temp was frigid?
Another question, why does grandma live in a house with allegedly no heat when she works full time, but if the kids live in the same house with her it is neglect?

Quote:
In the situation with those children left in the cold house
please document this assertion. I have seen zero reports to this affect, reports have it that the house was heated with an oven and with space heaters. The outside temp is irrelevant, it is the posible inside heat that is. If the kids choose to not turn on the heaters this is not the parents fault, and we dont even know that this interior was cold. Did you not notice how the alleged journalists completely set the assumption that the house was cold without relaying the fact that it was cold (prob because it was not). How about how the state alleges neglect even though they admit that the kids were perfectly fine....did you notice that either???
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 12:03 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Anyone, including Katie, can call CPS--anonymously--and ask them if a therapist she saw now has to report what she's told us, and get the question answered for themselves. And they are the best source of information about what needs to be reported, and by whom. I wouldn't ask a priest--they didn't report abuse within their own church.
That would work. Better than a priest. As good as an attorney, if you reach a social worker without an agenda.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 12:25 am
@neologist,
Quote:
That would work. Better than a priest. As good as an attorney, if you reach a social worker without an agenda.
given what we know about the NSA how anonymous are our dealings with the state? I would not bet an ice cream cone that our dealings are ever anonymous.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 12:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
please document this assertion. I have seen zero reports to this affect, reports have it that the house was heated with an oven and with space heaters. The outside temp is irrelevant, it is the posible inside heat that is. If the kids choose to not turn on the heaters this is not the parents fault, and we dont even know that this interior was cold. Did you not notice how the alleged journalists completely set the assumption that the house was cold without relaying the fact that it was cold (prob because it was not). How about how the state alleges neglect even though they admit that the kids were perfectly fine....did you notice that either???

The outside temperature is not irrelevant when it comes to trying to heat the interior. When the outside temperature is in the teens, using an oven to heat the home does next to nothing, and the effect of space heaters is rather minimal. The police made no mention of space heaters. But, even if those were available, they can also be very unsafe unless used carefully, and they can cause fires in the home. These were 4 minors, the two youngest only 4 and 8, and they were left unsupervised by an adult because the grandmother worked during the day, something the parents knew. This is not even an adequate living situation on a regular basis for children, and it is the responsibility of the parents to repair whatever problems exist with the heating system in the home, particularly during an extremely cold winter when outside temperatures have been in the teens and low 20's.

The parents had not left adequate food in the home for the 6 days these 4 children were left alone. That's the parents responsibility--not the grandmother's, not the older children's--if you want to be sure your children have food to eat, you buy it and leave it in the home for them. It was the 8 year old's asking a teacher for some food, because she was so hungry, that caused the school to alert the authorities. And that's why we need mandated reporters.

Apparently, you have difficulty comprehending what you read. The state does not allege abuse. The parents are charged with 4 counts of endangering the welfare of a minor. And they appear to have done just that, by leaving the children in an inadequately supervised, and potentially hazardous, living situation for 6 days.

That the children were "fine" does not mean these parents did not leave their children in at "at risk" situation because they wanted to take off and go to a hotel. Would you rather one of the children had died or been seriously injured before any charges were lodged? And we don't know how "fine" the children were. If they were chronically hungry, as one of their neighbors asserted, are they suffering from malnutrition or are they underweight? Have they received regular medical and dental care? Have they been legally neglected?

And this particular case is an excellent example of why mandated reporters are needed to report suspected abuse or neglect of children. A neighbor was apparently aware these children were often hungry, but she didn't take action. Someone like you wouldn't have taken action. But this is a situation where action was required because 4 minor children were left, for an extended period of time, in a potentially unsafe and inadequately supervised situation by the parents legally responsible for their care. And it was the mandated reporters who took action, to protect the welfare of the children.
And all you're complaining about is the state "pounding" on these parents.

You never feel that arrests and charges against anyone are ever justified. In your mind, every arrest of anyone is an instance of the state pounding on the individual. So, you constantly try to deny or rationalize the behavior of those who are arrested, you dismiss the reasons for the arrest, and you totally ignore the victims affected by the crime or action of those arrested.

So, none of this is anything new with you. You're on your usual soapbox giving your usual pre-packaged anti-government spiel, even though the arrests and charges in this case seem more than justified.



BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 01:28 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
These were 4 minors, the two youngest only 4 and 8,


LOL and one minor who was 15 and the other minor who was 13 ages where you would think they could take care of the situation if needed for a few hours when Grandmother is not at home.

Sure with the history of large scale child abused sexual and otherwise going on with children in state care they surely are better off to be seized by the state!!!!!!

One child in south Florida was missing for 6 months before the state become aware of it, with state child care workers just falsely checking off the box that they had visit and the child was well.

Off hand I can not remember if they ever did find the child or her body.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 03:43 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
LOL and one minor who was 15 and the other minor who was 13 ages where you would think they could take care of the situation if needed for a few hours when Grandmother is not at home.

You miss the point--it's the parents' responsibility to assure that their children, all of their minor children, are in an adequate and safe home environment at all times. These children were left, without adequate food, in an inadequately heated home, for 6 days, and without sufficient adult supervision to ensure their welfare and safety.
Quote:

Sure with the history of large scale child abused sexual and otherwise going on with children in state care they surely are better off to be seized by the state!!!!!!

That's not the case in my area. If there is such a "wide-spread" history of abuse going on with children in state care where you live, what are you doing about it? Have you contacted your state legislators to find out if the issue is being addressed? Or don't you care about the problem, apart from using it as an excuse to complain about government in an online forum?

Removing children from the home is generally a temporary measure, and a last resort, unless the situation requires a more immediate action. At the very least, the 4 children in this case had to be placed in a home that was adequately heated and where adequate food was provided, in addition to better supervision. And they were placed with another family member, in a kinship placement. The next step would involve CPS continuing to investigate, and determining the necessary interventions--therapy, parenting classes, additional social services, home repairs, etc,--to enable the children to return to an improved living situation with, hopefully, parents who will then behave more responsibly.

You seem to have no concerns, at all, for the welfare and well being of the 4 children involved in this situation. Apparently, if it was up to you, you would have just left them in an inadequately heated home, without adequate food, and with parents who just might take off tomorrow leaving them again inadequately attended to.

Your remarks simply reveal what kind of person you are, BillRM, which is, again, why mandated reporters and CPS are needed, to protect the welfare of children--people like you don't care about it.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 05:25 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
it's the parents' responsibility to assure that their children, all of their minor children, are in an adequate and safe home environment at all times


Parents are no more responsible for the acts of others than are the rest of us...It is the parents responsibility to make all reasonable efforts to assure that their children are in a adequate and safe home environment....if care was taken but none the less the children are harmed by others then it is not the parents fault, and the state has no right to claim that the parents are at fault. Your views on parental responsibility are unreasonable and oppressive.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 05:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
s no right to claim that the parents are at fault. Your views on parental responsibility are unreasonable and oppressive.


Given the **** poor job the state does in caring for children it is kind of sadly amusing.

Once more in Florida there was a survey/audit of the children that had been placed into state care and a amazing percent was no while to be found.

It would seems some took themselves off for a life of moving from one friend to another or sadly the street life and then some did walked back to their families that the state had removed them from in the first place.

Oh the state for the most part could not find the resources to track down these children in any numbers.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 05:45 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Given the **** poor job the state does in caring for children it is kind of sadly amusing.


and does an extremely poor job of educating kids. And does an extremely poor job of making sure that the kids are left a country put together well enough that they will have a chance to pay off all of the debt that the state is leaving them.

And this same state routinely gets on its high horse and goes after parents for not taking" proper" care of the kids??!!

**** them!

The state codifying snitch culture into law and lying to the kids " WE WILL PROTECT YOU!" as they run over individual rights and tear apart families is merely extra credit on the moral reprobate score of the state.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 06:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The state codifying snitch culture into law and lying to the kids " WE WILL PROTECT YOU!" as they run over individual rights and tear apart families is merely extra credit on the moral reprobate score of the state.


An once the state get involved with a family for any reason getting them out again is one hell of a task.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 06:09 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
An once the state get involved with a family for any reason getting them out again is one hell of a task.


the state has latched on to the feminist doctrine that families have no privacy rights ( any darkness must be assumed to contain abuse according to these victim culture advocates) , that the state is morally right to use its power at will to invade families and tear them apart on the most flimsy of justifications.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 06:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

Parents are no more responsible for the acts of others than are the rest of us...It is the parents responsibility to make all reasonable efforts to assure that their children are in a adequate and safe home environment....if care was taken but none the less the children are harmed by others then it is not the parents fault, and the state has no right to claim that the parents are at fault. Your views on parental responsibility are unreasonable and oppressive.

Parents are responsible for their own acts--which in this case included taking off and leaving their 4 children in a house without an adequate heating system, and without enough available food in that house--conditions they did not rectify before taking off--they didn't make sure the children were in an adequate and safe home environment before they left. That's part of the reason they are charged with endangering the welfare of a minor.

Who said these children were harmed by anyone else? You seem to be confusing this situation with your own--when your children were sexually abused by a babysitter. Were you accused of being at fault in that instance?

You agree that "It is the parents responsibility to make all reasonable efforts to assure that their children are in a adequate and safe home environment"--but, since these parents precisely did not do that, particularly with regard to the heating of the home, and the amount of food left in the home, I fail to understand why you do not agree with their arrest and the charges against them. They violated basic parental responsibilities, even you concur with. Your thinking is very scrambled.

Your anti-government rants are getting tedious and boring. Don't you get tired of standing on that soapbox? Go out and hunt up better candidates for office if you don't like those doing the job. Any idiot can sit around, typing on a keyboard, complaining about it--that's about all you ever prove.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 06:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They violated basic parental responsibilities, even you concur with
which is part of the reason I said that the whole bunch of them should be in a therapists office, and I have no problem with the state compelling such and insisting upon improvement. The courts are no place to help families such as this, the courts are set up to administer retribution, not aid.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 06:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
which is part of the reason I said that the whole bunch of them should be in a therapists office, and I have no problem with the state compelling such and insisting upon improvement

Making an arrest is one way of compelling treatment, and insisting on such improvement. It's a moot point whether the charges will even lead to a prosecution in this particular case--but the threat of prosecution is reasonable leverage the state can use to help insure these parents' compliance with whatever CPS wants them to do in terms of therapy, parenting classes, home repairs, adequate supervision of the children, etc,--to get the living situation improved for the children.
Quote:
The courts are no place to help families such as this, the courts are set up to administer retribution, not aid.

That's not true. Particularly when it comes to Family Court.

These parents seem to have needed a kick in the ass to wake them up regarding their parental responsibilities. Hauling them into court seems to have accomplished that. Now that the state has gotten their attention, CPS, will help identify the interventions these parents need to follow through with to help them to be more responsible parents--they will be offered help. If these parents comply, the situation for their children is likely to improve, and this story should have a happy ending.



hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 08:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
. If these parents comply, the situation for their children is likely to improve, and this story should have a happy ending.
she says knowing full well that entanglements with the "justice" system tends to leave citizens financially ruined, many times for life.....
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Feb, 2014 09:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
she says knowing full well that entanglements with the "justice" system tends to leave citizens financially ruined, many times for life.....

These people were on food stamps and living in a house without a working heating system, and you're worrying they will be "financially ruined"? Rolling Eyes I think it's safe to say they might well qualify for a public defender.

And the state may well not prosecute. A lot may depend on the CPS investigation, and how cooperative and compliant they are with whatever they are required to do to help them become more responsible parents. The aim of CPS isn't to punish them, their aim is to get them functioning as better parents, and to return their children to their care. This is a situation where a happy ending is a definite possibility.
0 Replies
 
 

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