14
   

Was I sexually abused?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 02:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

Because there is no concern for justice, pounding on alleged abusers is the full extent of the agenda.


CPS and APS are protective agencies--their primary purpose is to protect the vulnerable from harm. Their job is not to pound on abusers, it's to stop the abuse, or get them away from the person they are harming.

And what you are saying has nothing to do with the situation described by our poster. No therapist she consults now is going to report anything she says to anyone. She can be certain of that.

And this sort of thing might not have even been reported if a therapist was told about at the time it was taking place. If a therapist can address the situation on their own, and the child is not in serious danger or jeopardy, and the family is cooperative, most therapists will do their own intervention first, and not immediately involve CPS.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 02:32 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
CPS and APS are protective agencies--their primary purpose is to protect the vulnerable from harm. Their job is not to pound on abusers, it's to stop the abuse, or get them away from the person they are harming.
which as nothing to do with eliminating the statutes of limitation, which are intended to and do see to it that justice is done as best as possible, that the alleged abusers have a reasonable chance to defend themselves from assault from the state.

Quote:
No therapist she consults now is going to report anything she says to anyone. She can be certain of that.

bullshit

Quote:
If a therapist can address the situation on their own, and the child is not in serious danger or jeopardy, and the family is cooperative, most therapists will do their own intervention first

mandatory reporting laws increasingly make that an illegal act.

Quote:
By law, mandatory reporters must report suspected abuse or neglect of a child regardless of whether or not the knowledge of the abuse was gained in the reporter’s official capacity. In other words, the mandatory reporting of abuse or neglect of children is a 24-hour obligation.

Mandatory reporters, while acting in an official capacity, who come in contact with an elderly or developmentally disabled adult they suspect have been abused or neglected, must report to DHS or law enforcement.

Who are mandatory reporters?

Medical personnel: Physicians, psychiatrists, surgeons, residents, interns, dentists, dentist hygienists, medical examiners, pathologists, osteopaths, coroners, Christian Science practitioners, chiropractors, podiatrists, optometrists, naturopathic physicians, registered and licensed practical nurses, emergency medical technicians, substance abuse treatment personnel, hospital administrators, physical, speech and occupational therapists, and other personnel involved in the examination, care or treatment of patients.

School and child care personnel: Teachers, school personnel, educational advocates assigned to a child pursuant to the School Code, truant officers, directors and staff assistants of day care centers and nursery schools.

Public employees: Members of the Legislative Assembly, employees of the State Commission on Children and Families, the Child Care Division of the Employment Department, the Oregon Youth Authority, a county health department, a community mental health and developmental disabilities program, a county juvenile department, and all DHS employees.

Law Enforcement: Truant officers, probation officers, law enforcement officers, and field personnel of the Department of Corrections.

Others: Psychologists, licensed clinical social workers, licensed professional counselors, licensed marriage and family therapists, members of the clergy, attorneys, firefighters, court appointed special advocates, registered or certified child care providers, and foster care providers and their employees.


http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/abuse/pages/mandatory_report.aspx

Abuse by a sib will qualify, and the parents will be held accountable.

The Fed Gov in cooperation with the victim advocacy industry has been very active in pushing new mandatory reporting laws through state governments. a list of recent "progress" is found here

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/mandatory-rprtg-of-child-abuse-and-neglect-2013.aspx
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 02:40 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
What confuses me that in the past (here at a2k) Bill and Hawkeye have been soft/ambivalent on their definition of sex abuse. You have always taken a much more judicial (?) yet still judicious approach to sex crimes and sex offenders. The world seems a bit off now the two roles have been reverse. Did I find myself in Bizarro World?


I clearly think inappropriate fondling of one minor sibling by another is sexual abuse, but I think it's better handled within the family as a mental health issue that must be addressed by mental health treatment. The only reason to involve CPS, or even Family Court, in something like what the poster described, is if the family/caretakers are uncooperative with treatment or supervision, if the inappropriate behavior does not immediately cease once it becomes known and addressed with the brother, or if the inappropriate behavior on the part of the brother also occurs with minors outside the home.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
No therapist our poster consults now will report anything she tells them about her brother's behavior, when she was 8, to any agency. I am absolutely certain of that.

She will not put her brother at any legal risk by what she tells a therapist now about her brother's behavior when she was 8 years old. I am absolutely certain of that.

You don't know what you are talking about.

If you better understood the mandatory reporting obligations--as well as the logic behind them--you'd realize that what you are saying is downright bizarre.

The poster can have complete confidence that any therapist she consults now will maintain the confidentiality of what she tells them about her past.

You're on your usual soapbox about the government "pounding" on people--and it just doesn't apply in this situation. If anything, CPS, and APS as well, more often do not do enough to investigate, follow up, and protect the vulnerable from abuse, particularly from abuse by their caretakers. They leave them in situations where the abuse continues. But that's a whole different topic.

neologist
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:44 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
No therapist our poster consults now will report anything she tells them about her brother's behavior, when she was 8, to any agency. I am absolutely certain of that.

She will not put her brother at any legal risk by what she tells a therapist now about her brother's behavior when she was 8 years old. I am absolutely certain of that.
Laws differ from state to state. Katie should tread carefully. A priest or preacher would probably know the local law, as would an attorney. Many attorneys will answer such basic questions for free.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Fed Gov in cooperation with the victim advocacy industry has been very active in pushing new mandatory reporting laws through state governments. a list of recent "progress" is found here

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/mandatory-rprtg-of-child-abuse-and-neglect-2013.aspx


My lord what a long list and here we are telling children to turn to a trusted adult when they will know anyone they even slightly open up to will be on the phone one second afterward to the police or will be breaking the law themselves.

Nice going taking away anyone they can trust to turn to.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 05:58 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
A priest or preacher would probably know the local law, as would an attorney. Many attorneys will answer such basic questions for free.


I would suggest an attorney as the states legislatures being made up in large part of lawyers trend not to have lawyers come under the reporting mandate where in some states priests do come under the mandate.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:12 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
here we are telling children to turn to a trusted adult when they will know anyone they even slightly open up to will be on the phone one second afterward to the police or will be breaking the law themselves.


Yes, but we lie to our kids all of the ******* time, which is why kids generally have no use for adults. This is more of the same.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:20 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My lord what a long list and here we are telling children to turn to a trusted adult when they will know anyone they even slightly open up to will be on the phone one second afterward to the police or will be breaking the law themselves.
Quote:

Don't you see that as a good thing--that someone will take action to protect a child who tells them about abuse or neglect? The child can trust such a person to take action--that's the purpose of a mandated reporter.

I fail to understand why it upsets you that there are people who are obligated to report abuse that may be placing a child in danger, or jeopardy, or which may otherwise be seriously harming the child.

In the past you've defended rapists and child pornographers, and now you're trying to shield those who otherwise abuse children? I notice you're not concerned about the abuse, or its effect on the child, just diminishing the "risk" for the abuser, or the possible consequences for the abuser, if the abuse becomes known to CPS..

That's why the state can't depend on people like you to help children who might be abused and that's the reason they have mandated reporters, who are legally obligated to seek help and intervention for children they believe are being legally abused or neglected.

This is in today's news. The temperature in that area has been in the teens and 20's, and the house was unheated, and the children had no food. It was reported to authorities by the school, who are mandated reporters, after a teacher became aware of the situation from one of the children..
Quote:
Cops: Kids Left Alone 6 Days While Parents at Hotel
February 13, 2014

A New York couple has been arrested after police say they left their two teenagers and two younger children alone without food or heat for six days while they stayed at a hotel.

Tulio and Maria Ayala of Central Islip on Long Island are each charged with four counts of child endangerment.

Police say their children were left unsupervised while the couple stayed at a nearby hotel. The children's ages are 15, 13, 8 and 4.

The Central Islip school district contacted authorities. The couple was arrested Wednesday. Their attorneys' names were not immediately available
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cops-ny-kids-left-days-parents-hotel-22503716

Thank goodness those children did turn to a trusted adult--and one mandated to report that situation.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:28 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Thank goodness those children did turn to a trusted adult--and one mandated to report that situation.


Because the simple solution, bringing them a bag of groceries, was never going to work!

Quote:
The children, who were not injured, were released to a family member.

Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/story/24716699/cops-parents-left-kids-alone-to-stay-at-hotel#ixzz2tFh9REnh
Follow us: @myfoxny on Twitter | Fox5NY on Facebook


In other report grandma says that the kids are often left on their own. Maybe these are some free range parents, actively teaching their kids how to deal with the world so that they will not be dependent victims like so many Americans..who knows. But we do know that the kids were so fine after these 6 days of alleged trauma that they were not even taken to an institution for observation and evaluation. The kids were fine.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:48 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Laws differ from state to state. Katie should tread carefully. A priest or preacher would probably know the local law, as would an attorney. Many attorneys will answer such basic questions for free.


The laws in that regard do not differ from state to state.

No therapist is mandated to report an incident like that that a patient experienced in the long ago past--that's nonsensical. The purpose of the reporting is to get the child relief from the abuse. Katie is not 8 years old now. She's been long out of that situation. What is CPS supposed to do for her now? That's why they wouldn't mandate reporting of something like this. It doesn't fit the guideline for reporting in any state.

People tell therapists all the time about forms of abuse they experienced as children--their parents beat them with belts, or electric cords, or continuously ridiculed or humiliated them, or actually kept them from being allowed to go out and play, or the parent was an alcoholic who exploded in verbal rage at the child, or was so drunk they ignored the child. Do you, by any stretch, think therapists are calling CPS about those long ago incidents?

Anyone, including Katie, can call CPS--anonymously--and ask them if a therapist she saw now has to report what she's told us, and get the question answered for themselves. And they are the best source of information about what needs to be reported, and by whom. I wouldn't ask a priest--they didn't report abuse within their own church.

Katie can, and really should, make an appointment with a therapist and ask if anything that happened to her when she was 8 would now have to be reported to CPS by the therapist. She'll find out it doesn't have to be reported.

She should feel confident that nothing she tells a therapist now, about what happened then, is going to be reported to anyone. The therapist will maintain confidentiality.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:49 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My lord what a long list and here we are telling children to turn to a trusted adult when they will know anyone they even slightly open up to will be on the phone one second afterward to the police or will be breaking the law themselves.

Don't you see that as a good thing--that someone will take action to protect a child who tells them about abuse or neglect? The child can trust such a person to take action--that's the purpose of a mandated reporter.

I fail to understand why it upsets you that there are people who are obligated to report abuse that may be placing a child in danger, or jeopardy, or which may otherwise be seriously harming the child.

In the past you've defended rapists and child pornographers, and now you're trying to shield those who otherwise abuse children? I notice you're not concerned about the abuse, or its effect on the child, just diminishing the "risk" for the abuser, or the possible consequences for the abuser, if the abuse becomes known to CPS..

That's why the state can't depend on people like you to help children who might be abused and that's the reason they have mandated reporters, who are legally obligated to seek help and intervention for children they believe are being legally abused or neglected.

This is in today's news. The temperature in that area has been in the teens and 20's, and the house was unheated, and the children had no food. It was reported to authorities by the school, who are mandated reporters, after a teacher became aware of the situation from one of the children..
Quote:
Cops: Kids Left Alone 6 Days While Parents at Hotel
February 13, 2014

A New York couple has been arrested after police say they left their two teenagers and two younger children alone without food or heat for six days while they stayed at a hotel.

Tulio and Maria Ayala of Central Islip on Long Island are each charged with four counts of child endangerment.

Police say their children were left unsupervised while the couple stayed at a nearby hotel. The children's ages are 15, 13, 8 and 4.

The Central Islip school district contacted authorities. The couple was arrested Wednesday. Their attorneys' names were not immediately available
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cops-ny-kids-left-days-parents-hotel-22503716

Thank goodness those children did turn to a trusted adult--and one mandated to report that situation.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
BTW we let 15 and 13 year olds have babies, and LET THEM KEEP EM!

WTF are we thinking.....they cant manage that certainly. *sarcasm*
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:50 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My lord what a long list and here we are telling children to turn to a trusted adult when they will know anyone they even slightly open up to will be on the phone one second afterward to the police or will be breaking the law themselves.


Don't you see that as a good thing--that someone will take action to protect a child who tells them about abuse or neglect? The child can trust such a person to take action--that's the purpose of a mandated reporter.

I fail to understand why it upsets you that there are people who are obligated to report abuse that may be placing a child in danger, or jeopardy, or which may otherwise be seriously harming the child.

In the past you've defended rapists and child pornographers, and now you're trying to shield those who otherwise abuse children? I notice you're not concerned about the abuse, or its effect on the child, just diminishing the "risk" for the abuser, or the possible consequences for the abuser, if the abuse becomes known to CPS..

That's why the state can't depend on people like you to help children who might be abused and that's the reason they have mandated reporters, who are legally obligated to seek help and intervention for children they believe are being legally abused or neglected.

This is in today's news. The temperature in that area has been in the teens and 20's, and the house was unheated, and the children had no food. It was reported to authorities by the school, who are mandated reporters, after a teacher became aware of the situation from one of the children..
Quote:
Cops: Kids Left Alone 6 Days While Parents at Hotel
February 13, 2014

A New York couple has been arrested after police say they left their two teenagers and two younger children alone without food or heat for six days while they stayed at a hotel.

Tulio and Maria Ayala of Central Islip on Long Island are each charged with four counts of child endangerment.

Police say their children were left unsupervised while the couple stayed at a nearby hotel. The children's ages are 15, 13, 8 and 4.

The Central Islip school district contacted authorities. The couple was arrested Wednesday. Their attorneys' names were not immediately available
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cops-ny-kids-left-days-parents-hotel-22503716

Thank goodness those children did turn to a trusted adult--and one mandated to report that situation.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 06:54 pm
Quote:
But the Ayalas told a different story.
“I have been a good parent for 15 years with them,” Tulio Ayala said.
Outside court after being arraigned and released, they told CBS 2 they left their four kids in the care of Tulio Ayala’s mother, who lives in the basement.
“We were having marital problems, and so I told my mom, ‘I’ll be back in a few days — can you watch them?’ And you know, she said she was fine with it,” Tulio Ayala said. “I left them with money in my own house, and she lives in the basement and everything, so they were not unattended.
The Ayalas said they left their children $100 dollars, food stamps and space heaters. But the grandmother called police, reporting the children home alone.
“She never called or attempted to text me, and said look, ‘I don’t want to watch them,’” Tulio Ayala said. “I would have come home.”
“I’m very upset. I just can’t stand how family can do this to you,” added Maria Ayala.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/13/long-island-couple-accused-of-leaving-4-kids-home-alone-for-6-days/

So they were not really left alone, but the state charges abuse anyways. Just another of so many examples of why we can not trust the state to use its power justly.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

In other report grandma says that the kids are often left on their own. Maybe these are some free range parents, actively teaching their kids how to deal with the world so that they will not be dependent victims like so many Americans..who knows. But we do know that the kids were so fine after these 6 days of alleged trauma that they were not even taken to an institution for observation and evaluation. The kids were fine.

Parents can't leave 4 minor children alone in a freezing house without food for 6 days to teach "their kids how to deal with the world so that they will not be dependent victims"--the youngest was only 3 or 4 years old. What the hell is the matter with you? That's why these parents are in jail and deserve to be in jail.

Thank goodness none of the children had to be hospitalized. But I really doubt they are just "fine" emotionally with parents like that. One of the children was starving, she asked a teacher for food, and that's how this came to light. And no grandma did come over with groceries during those 6 days, and that wouldn't have helped to heat the house--and the outside temperature was in the teens and low 20's during that time. That could be why the parents went to a hotel--because the house was freezing. I am sure that both CPS and the police visited the home to see the conditions for themselves before the arrest was made.

This situation is exactly why they need mandated reporters. No one else helped these children.

Did the eldest child and grandma even verify the parents' story, which sounds like pure BS from these parents. Was grandma even a competent adult to leave the children with?

And it wasn't grandma who called the police, it was the school, so part of the parents' story is a definite lie.

Quote:
Police said it was school officials who notified them the children were left unsupervised for six days.

They said the grandmother worked and was not home supervising the children, and an oven was used to heat the home.

And neighbor Cathy Martin said the grandmother could not afford to take care the children. She said the parents are rarely home, and the children often seem hungry.

“You can tell when somebody needs something, and the little girl, Sasha — which is my sweetheart; they all are – she would always tell me they were, ‘I’m hungry,’ and I would always, just, you know, give her stuff,” Martin said. “I didn’t know it was to this level.”

Police said the children were not harmed and were released in the care of a relative. The Ayalas said they will fight to get their children back.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/13/long-island-couple-accused-of-leaving-4-kids-home-alone-for-6-days/


Why is it you have no concern for children living with parents like that? You think the state is abusing these parents? Where is your concern for the abuse and neglect of the children? People like you are the reason they need mandated reporters--you'd apparently ignore the situation.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:27 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Outside court after being arraigned and released,


Your failure to follow the story correctly calls into doubt any observations you might have on it.

Quote:
And no grandma did come over with groceries
Grandma did not need to "come over" to the house, grandma lives in the house.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:38 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

Quote:
The purpose of mandatory reporting is to trigger an investigation to protect the welfare of the child

And the purpose of mandatory reporting is to prevent future abuse by the alleged abuser against other children in the alleged abuser's supervision.


as I see it, this is one of the important reasons to speak to a local counsellor/therapist - they will know any applicable laws

and if there is ANY chance this man is continuing to abuse, he should be stopped
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

So they were not really left alone, but the state charges abuse anyways. Just another of so many examples of why we can not trust the state to use its power justly.

If the children were left without adequate food, in an unheated house, they were left in a dangerous situation--and the state charged them with child endangerment. Who knows if grandma was even in the house, or how compentent and capable grandma is? These are their children, and their responsibility, and grandma wasn't arrested.

The state should have charged them.

This is precisely why we need mandated reporters, and CPS.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2014 07:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
And no grandma did come over with groceries
Grandma did not need to "come over" to the house, grandma lives in the house.


and she didn't make sure the kids were fed and cared for

the parents did not make sure a responsible person was caring for their children
 

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