Medicinal Marijuana - Is Bush a moron for opposing it?

What are the statistics of milk drinkers who go on to do hard drugs compared with those who have tried marijuana? I would be willing to say a much, much higher percentage of dope smokers than milk drinkers.

I think a bigger issue than legalization is whether this war on drugs/ harsher laws and punishments even works.

I think a lot more progress can be achieved in limiting drug use through postive reinforcement programs which have already proven effective, alleviating poverty, improving education, reducing violence in schools all for a lot cheaper than what this drug war is costing.

Quite so.

I live in the UK, very near Holland where marijuana is legal with conditions. The drug addiction rate, as well as crime is far lower in Holland than in the UK.

I too, would enjoy seeing some statistics on this issue in the USA.

Here's a link posted earlier in this thread, Centroles. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/internat.htm

The statement re the opinion of recovering drug addicts comes from my own experience in working with families of addicts.

I agree, but the point is to determine what is causing it. Is it something inherent to marijuana or is it circumstantial? Is it because of a personality type that has an inclunation to vices or is it the vices being related?

The "gateway" argument is one that implies a cause and effect, when it might be a relation of circumstance.

The link suggests that Europe has fewer addicts, fewer health problems (HIV from needles etc), and lower drug crime as a result of decriminilization.

But once again, my point is that there is an alternative to reduce drug use than harsher penalties and more money on the drug war.

McG,



It sounds like "College" was your gateway, as opposed to marijuana. You were a normal kid who was experimenting a little. You didn't do any addictive drugs (coke, meth...) and you turned out alright.

Here's some more links to stats supporting non-legalization of recreational drugs

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths2.htm

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths4.htm

http://www.drugwatch.org/T&L%20Drug%20Legalization.htm


And here's an article advocating legalization. Fair warning in advance, it is written by an ordained minister. But the arguments for legalization are very well thought out.

http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=781


The one issue nobody has brought up is this: if we decriminalize recreational narcotic drugs and make them available by prescription or any other means, do you advocate kids having these? What should the cut off age be?

And if you do not advocate letting kids have them, is there not a danger that drug merchants will turn their efforts to and focus exclusively on the kids when the adult market dries up for them?

The contention that most seem to be ignoring is that a lot more progress can be achieved in limiting drug use through postive reinforcement programs which have already proven effective, alleviating poverty, improving education, reducing violence in schools all for a lot cheaper than what this drug war is costing.

I'm not saying lets legalize drugs. But I do believe that we should be spending so much on trying to control drug trade, or working so hard to increase punishments for first time drug offenders.

This does little to curb drug use. Someone stated that it takes roughly 500 billion dollars to cut the number of drug users by 1%.

I don't see this as an efficent use of money.

Very astute comment, Jer.

Centroles - How are you going to get these inner city kids to commit to a positive reinforcement program, when most of them can't read, can barely speak what I would classify as english. Personally I would like to see first time (caught) drug users be required to go to a treatment facility, but there just aren't enough of them to house all of the offenders.

Legalizing drugs is not the answer. Education would be the answer except that we have placed way to many restrictions on the teachers and on our history books etc. and not enough discipline for the children.

Political correctness, don't hurt my feelings etc. and the downfall of the "Nuclear Family" has lead to the moral bankruptcy in America where it's cool to be a mom at 13 and peircing your tongue to your eyebrow is all the rage. And let us not forget about the kids who are "gay" these days. When I was in high school that was not a "stigma" that you wanted to be labeled as. Now we have girls dressing up to look like drag queens and Britney Spears, Christina Aguillera and Madonna french kissing on an awards show. Why? Because of its "shock" value.

Get the kids straightened out and we will all be in much better shape.

Can scientists not derive the same chemicals out of the marijuana plant in pill for, rather than selling MJ to grandma? If they can - go for it. Then if you are caught with that pill and don't have a prescription from your doctor then we put you under the jail. How does that sound centroles?

The kinds of inner city kids you mention are precisely the ones on which these positive reinforcement programs have been effective. The kinds of activities not reading, drug use, aggression etc. are precisely the things that positive reinforcement programs helped with.

I've never proposed legalizing drugs. I'm merely saying that these harsher punishments for drug offenders isn't helping anything. And the money spent on this drug war can be spent on more effective programs that have shown themselves to be successful. The topic is medicinal marijuana, and that's what I'm advocating.

How exactly are you proposing that we solve this "moral bankrupcy" saints?

Make divorce illegal? Make piercing illegal? Ban piercing from tv? Let teachers go back to hitting disobeient kids with rulers? Throwing someone in jail for being born homosexual (homosexual is biological, most animals have homosexuality)?

We can never go back to the ways of the 1950s. We have plenty of other more serious problems back then... from abusive husbands that refuse to divorce, abusive teachers, racism, homophobia and censorship.



Illegal.

By federal law, marijuana, whether taken orally, smoked, or injected is illegal. Thus such a pill would also be illegal. They've already attempted to take what they though was the main active ingredient in marijuana and put it into a pill. It wasn't nearly as effective as marijuana.

Before such a pill, one essentially letting people take marijuana in tablet form, can emerge, federal law would need to be amended to make this possible.

But Bush has opposed any such attempt.

Saintsfanbrian,



Inner-city or a farm in Idaho...do you think that a kid caught with a joint should be sent to prison? Is a treatment facility particularly necessary for a kid caught with a joint? If you caught a kid with a beer would he need to go to treatment?

How about dumping a whack of cash into the school system, particularly in poorer areas. That's probably your best bet. Pull kids out of society and put them in jail at a young age for minor drug offences and I can assure you those kids will get their education in jail. An education in how to lie, cheat, and steal effectively. Throwing people in jail for drug use creates a cycle of violence, poverty, and crime.



Education would be the answer if the education were honest.

With the american war on drugs you've got a party line of "drugs are bad" and no distinction between the effects of addictive drugs and non-addictive drugs. There's a line drawn between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" and there's no grey in between. A kid who knows and likes Johnny (who's a pot smoker) then must make a decision about him. The adults are telling him that people like Johnny are bad, but he knows Johnny's a good guy. So the adults must be lying.



What is the moral wrong of piercing one's body? What is morally wrong about homosexuality? What is morally wrong about drag queens? Please explain.

I do agree that the kissing was for the press it would receive - but I wasn't offended by it.



I'm all for getting kids straightened out. Give them good food, a solid education, and an opportunity to participate in as many sports as possible while growing up. What they wear and how they speak around their friends isn't particularly relevant. And in their late teens if they want to have a beer or smoke a joint - it'll probably do them some good. As long as they've been instilled with the basic values of responsibility, care for other humans, and care for themselves.



Scientists have made synthetic THC - the brand name for this is Marinol. If you search through the earlier portions of this thread you'll find links to it. Word is that it isn't as effective as the real stuff.

Why do you care if grandma is popping a pill or smoking the drug? Why does the delivery method matter to YOU?

Looking forward to your response.

Have a good day.

Institutionalizing kids that are caught with pot or beer is stupid; throw the baby out with the bath water. Do you have any idea how much it costs to house a juvenile in any type of government insititution? Why not spend that money on education and recovery programs - it'll end up costing much less.

And crushingly destructive to the human spirit of that kid...

So how can we end this idiotic drug war?

light up daily

Make it legal.

I can't believe we still haven't done a thing about this issue! Do you think Hillary will act on it atleast?

I haven't read through all the pages but if marijuana helps people who are in pain; I don't see why it can't be legal. Why is that worse than giving someone a pain pill which they can become addicted to?

I personally don't understand why marijuana is illegal but alchohol is not. I have been around people who do both and people who drink excessivily are just as unpredictible as people who smoke marijuana if not more so. (I personally don't do either so I am not advocating for any personal reason.

(sorry if I repeated anything or you guys have moved beyond the basic subject and I have interrupted.)

On the whole I agree with Centroles on the whole issue of inner city kids and things.