A penitent troll apologises for mocking atheism. On show here!

@mikeymojo,

...And I should have added that ALL we call "knowledge" if not locally specific, is species specific and open to constant revision. Knowledge is never absolute, it is always functional and contextual. In that sense believers know their God is real.

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@mikeymojo,

mikeymojo wrote:

igm wrote:

I don't disagree with your agnostic views as I have shown... but they are useless and have no benefit... I read your posts because... hey Frank... it's not all about you... I enjoy the originality of those you seek to put down with your banal repetitions. So in that sense you are not useless... but not because of you... inspite of you.

Igm you just revealed the greatest flow of philosophy, it doesn't matter because we don't know. Frank is right and we all know it, that's why discussions like this even exist. We don't know and never will know no matter how much we think we know. Yeah I know I'm not adding anything but the obvious, but really how can anyone ignore what's obvious and not accept it?

Thank you, Mike. igm is out of sorts...and taking it out on me right now. I said something earlier that he tried to correct. When I questioned him about the correction...he started a song and dance act that continues.

We do not know the answers to certain questions (even though Fresco is attempting to fog that up in his follow-up post)...and acknowledging that we do not know is an important ingredient in dealing with the lack of knowledge.

I appreciate your coming here to mention that.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

even though Fresco is attempting to fog that up in his follow-up post

On the contrary I succeeded yet again, in exposing your epistemological naivity. Laughing

1 Reply

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Quote:
even though Fresco is attempting to fog that up in his follow-up post

On the contrary I succeeded yet again, in exposing your epistemological naivity.

What you succeeded in doing, Fresco, was to reinforce the need to constantly remind everyone that we do not know many of the things some purport to know in this forum...including the people who are redefining "know" in a way that makes them possessors of special knowledge of the REALITY.

(igm does something like that with "happiness" and "contentment." He can be miserable and totally malcontent, but he will define it as happy and content in order to make his assertions of having attained that state through meditation seem real.)

You are good at fog, Fresco...and most of the people here are not able to handle it with the kind of grasp necessary. That probably is why you post here...rather than at a real philosophy forum...where the people can diagnose your arguments and show how where and how they are lacking.

But it is fun to watch you do your thing...and I am the first to acknowledge that you do it brilliantly.

This forum however, is more suited to posts that read:

"My sister is telling everyone that Dad fucks better than I do...but Mom always says I am better. What should I do?"

So, Fresco...what you have exposed is not what you think. I do appreciate what you have exposed, however...and will continue to comment on it where appropriate.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

This forum however, is more suited to posts that read:

"My sister is telling everyone that Dad fucks better than I do...but Mom always says I am better. What should I do?"

Haha Springer material there

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

... possessors of special knowledge of the REALITY....

Thank you for using that phrase which for the n'th time underscores your epistemological ignorance, (especially the attempt to set the word "reality" in stone by the use of capitals). I suggest you remedy that, by at least reading reading the Wiki article on epistemology but I doubt whether you would risk taking me up on that.

2 Replies

@fresco,

I think you understand what I mean when I say nobody has the answers to philosophical questions, which is why we try to discover those answers. Too bad you reveal another problem in philosophy, by giving words and ideas different meanings than what was intended! No wonder no one can agree on anything.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Thank you, Mike. igm is out of sorts...and taking it out on me right now. I said something earlier that he tried to correct.

Wrong Frank... on all counts... show that I'm out of sorts and that I'm taking it out on you and that you said something earlier that I tried to correct and why that has any relevance to your last post... if I did... Trying to rewrite history to show you in a favourable light again I see Frank.

As I say Frank you're wrong... I showed that your decades old agnostic position is pointless because we all do not disagree with you... by definition i.e. atheists and theists. I said that whilst remaining happy at all times and continue to do so.

Prove I'm wrong Frank and you're not just making things up about our recent posts...

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@mikeymojo,

No. Philosophy has gone a lot further than simplistic questions about "agreement". It, and associated disciplines, have investigated the nature of linguistic exchanges and the tenuous status of individual words. Wittgenstein in particular drew our attention to the fact that many so-called "problems" (like the existence of God) turn out not to be problems at all, but epiphenomena of contextual "language games" within shifting social structures. In short, the significant issues about religious belief are not epistemological but social. Thus "agreement" matters in the case of religion because murder continues to be committed in its name, and not because most humans have a need for it.

1 Reply

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Quote:
... possessors of special knowledge of the REALITY....

Thank you for using that phrase which for the n'th time underscores your epistemological ignorance, (especially the attempt to set the word "reality" in stone by the use of capitals). I suggest you remedy that, by at least reading reading the Wiki article on epistemology but I doubt whether you would risk taking me up on that.

When it comes to Ultimate Questions about the REALITY, Fresco...I am not foolish enough to take your word for what actually IS...nor the word of the person who wrote the article on epistemology for Wiki...(who might be you!)

There is no risk involved for me...but I doubt you are up to the task of acknowledging that what you are assuming you say about REALITY...actually is correct.

Now you are free to start that nonsense about what Reality, IS, acknowledging, assuming, actually...mean.

But I love the fact that you are here discussing this stuff with people like us...rather than taking the risk of discussing it on a forum with people who could pick you apart. That says more about a willingness to take risk than what you just suggested.

Pinstripe Bowl about to begin. Probably going to see Rutgers take a beating from Notre Dame, but such is the life of a football fan.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

(igm does something like that with "happiness" and "contentment." He can be miserable and totally malcontent, but he will define it as happy and content in order to make his assertions of having attained that state through meditation seem real.)

Again Frank... prove it or call me a liar but stop making things up and telling others as if they are true... you appear to be a joke.. prove you are not. You have made an assertion about my state of mind based on your interpretation of my typed words and your reaction to them.. from that you have told others lies about me... what kind of person are you? I'm still happy by the way!

So, I'm not a liar Frank but you seem to be telling others I am... why is that?

Also, don't forget to reply with proof of this:

http://able2know.org/topic/229897-4#post-5534432

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@fresco,

I agree, what you say works with religion, because religion is probably just a man made idea, like currency. It only exists because people allow it to exist. No one will ever agree on religious matters because PEOPLE create the evidence for its existence. This evidence can be changed over time and through society, because it's whole premise is man/socially made. The universe and reality in general, is probably not a man made constuct, hence should have one objectified "meaning" that can be agreed to by all.

It should be easier to answer the questions of philosophy and reality than the questions religions pose, we can't change the laws of nature like how we can change religions. But we can't because philosophy is treated like a man made religion. And yes, I could be wrong, which would change absolutely nothing in my life.

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@Frank Apisa,

More "....blah, BLAH, blahty blah..."
Or in other words, as expected, you didn't read up on epistemology. Smile

1 Reply

@igm,

I don't associate with people who call me a liar (as I'm not) without proof (of course there isn't any) or who make things up about what I post (as you do). Apologize or avoid me (as I 'will' avoid you) in future (I'm still happy Frank, in case you need an update).

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

(igm does something like that with "happiness" and "contentment." He can be miserable and totally malcontent, but he will define it as happy and content in order to make his assertions of having attained that state through meditation seem real.)

Again Frank... prove it or call me a liar but stop making things up and telling others as if they are true... you appear to be a joke.. prove you are not.

I have to prove that I am not a joke????

Gimme a break.

I am making nothing up...and I am most assuredly not a joke.

Quote:

You have made an assertion about my state of mind based on your interpretation of my typed words and your reaction to them.. from that you have told others lies about me... what kind of person are you?

I am a reasonable person...ethical, truthful...and I do not lie about others.

I have certainly told no lies about you.

Quote:

I'm still happy by the way!

Wonderful. Although you honestly do not sound happy. You sound like you are anxious and upset, igm. You ought to work on getting that under control.

Quote:

So, I'm not a liar Frank but you seem to be telling others I am... why is that?

At no point have I ever said that you are a liar. I defy you to find a statement from me calling you a liar. (Don't waste your time looking...it is not there.)

I have suggested that you redefine words and situations in order to have them comport with your notions of what actually is. That may well be a mistake…or a delusion. It does not mean that you are necessarily lying.

I think you are kidding yourself...and I suspect it is because you are devoted to this "religious dogma" you are constantly touting.

BUT I HAVE NEVER CALLED YOU A LIAR.

Quote:

Also, don't forget to reply with proof of this:

http://able2know.org/topic/229897-4#post-5534432

I already have. You claim in that post that you never tried to correct what I wrote.

Your correction of what I wrote is contained in your post: http://able2know.org/topic/229897-1#post-5532727

Stop trying to play games with me, igm.

You started this fiasco with an unnecessary and inappropriate correction of what I wrote…and now you are allowing the heat to get to you.

Me…well, I am going to continue to turn up the heat.

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

More "....blah, BLAH, blahty blah..."
Or in other words, as expected, you didn't read up on epistemology.

More of you trying to sell what you suppose...as revelation of THE TRUTH.

If you had any guts at all...you would be playing this silly game in a real philosophy forum...and my guess is that the other players there would making hash of you.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

I don't associate with people who call me a liar (as I'm not) without proof (of course there isn't any) or who make things up about what I post (as you do). Apologize or avoid me (as I 'will' avoid you) in future (I'm still happy Frank, in case you need an update).

Avoid me if you must...and it is probably a wise thing to do, because I will not let you peddle that nonsense you peddle without challenging it.

I NEVER CALLED YOU A LIAR.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

I don't associate with people who call me a liar (as I'm not) without proof (of course there isn't any) or who make things up about what I post (as you do). Apologize or avoid me (as I 'will' avoid you) in future (I'm still happy Frank, in case you need an update).

Avoid me if you must...and it is probably a wise thing to do, because I will not let you peddle that nonsense you peddle without challenging it.

I NEVER CALLED YOU A LIAR.

This is a lie Frank (below) and as I am saying I'm happy you are calling me a liar... by saying that. You can't know my state of mind, so it is impossible for you to make the assertion you have made. You should assume I'm telling the truth unless you have evidence to the contrary... which is impossible for you to gain. You are a joke Frank... continually rewriting your own history to make you look like your correct.

Frank Apisa wrote:

(igm does something like that with "happiness" and "contentment." He can be miserable and totally malcontent, but he will define it as happy and content in order to make his assertions of having attained that state through meditation seem real.)

What's also a joke is you always say that you don't guess about things which it is impossible to know e.g. such as the true nature of reality but you can't know my emotional state...it is impossible... but you guess and make assertions about it even when I tell you that you are wrong... by calling me a liar effectively by saying I can't be happy when I say I am... that makes you a hypocrite as well Frank...

Update... I'm still happy because it doesn't depend on what I write or what you write... it is unconditional.... and that's true unless you can prove otherwise... which you can't.

2 Replies

@igm,

Of course you are welcome to say (as you usually do),' I don't know...' but you went far beyond that Frank... in asserting that I wasn't telling the truth... when you can't know... as you would normally say... 'I simply don't have enough evidence to say or to even make a guess'.... now that would be true!

I'm not a liar Frank and you spread lies when you assert that I am.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

If you had any guts at all...you would be playing this silly game in a real philosophy forum...and my guess is that the other players there would making hash of you.

Don't be daft Frank. You already know (ho ho) that I belong to a real life group which rigorously discusses papers on contemporary developments. I see my presence here, rightly or wrongly, as "a service in the spirit of the expertise offered by A2K" . That service specifically includes exchange of references with those genuinely interested in those developments. Since you cleary have no genuine interest in discussing such developments and are prepared to wallow in your self generated "cloud of unknowing", you actually have nothing useful to say. Unfortunately for the rest of us, you keep on saying it.

1 Reply

A penitent troll apologises for mocking atheism. On show here!

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