8
   

A penitent troll apologises for mocking atheism. On show here!

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
If you can come up with one scenario where what IS...actually is not...you will defeat my argument completely.


I is Iz.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:15 am
@izzythepush,
Great one ! Wink
timur
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:15 am
Quote:
Not sure what you mean by my reality. In any case...I am asking about REALITY.


Do you think OMSdave's ESP is reality? Have he seen the light and floated above his body?

It's certainly his reality but not mine.

So, what is, is not..
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:19 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Thanks, I've always been good at philosophy.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:21 am
@timur,
And just how a distinct collection of experiences from different individuals cannot form a set ?
Really you must have eaten something which is messing with your head...its just beyond any comments...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:22 am
@izzythepush,
You certainly beat a bunch load of folks around the forum no joking...
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:25 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Hey, come down on earth!

Who's saying that peculiar experiences cannot form sets?

It's only that they are not part of the same reality..

What is for some, is not for others.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:26 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I find drinking helps.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:32 am
@timur,
So long the Master set of reality refers for instance (and going along with the case you trying to make) to all forms of experience they all have in common experiencing, so they are a part of the same reality in the least the reality of phenomena.
Where did you take the idea distinct things cannot be part of the same reality so long there is ONE single bounding link ?
If anything reality is a great collection of distinct things...without distinction perception would be dead !
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:36 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Even in the case of a Multiverse where distinct laws of nature operate in distinct Universes there must be a bounding link we usually refer to as phenomena or that which manifests itself...that alone is the minimum common factor one can think off to group a collection of worlds in one single thing.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:38 am
@timur,
Yes...the pragmatists argue that can be no operational distinction between "appearance" and "reality". The two terms may imply different perceptual states or stages, but that is as far as it can ever go.
There is an interesting term used by Merleau-Ponty in his studies of perception.
He uses the term "affordance" to described how we see "the world" as populated not with neutral things but with items of significance which invite our potential interaction with them. Thus a tourist unknowing that he was straying onto a film set, might "falsely" experience affordances when observing the facades of a town. But a secondary state, which if discovered, he later might term "reality", might never occur and he would have been content with the "reality" of his first experience. And by extrapolation, there can be no limit to potential discoveries which modify affordances/appearances/realities.




Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 11:45 am
@fresco,
Since when distinct sets of operativeness and functionality from distinct individuals is per se proof of a non reality ?...
ANY common link even if just "experiencing" is sufficient to form a collection ! In the case experiencing would be the ground of reality, of what is. Experiencing would equate to "is-ness". That is to say experiencing IS occurring in a group of different individuals.

(for the more distracted among you I am not endorsing Fresco's position just going along with his assumption and still show he does not have a point)
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 12:02 pm
Its quite amazing...when we scratch under the surface and all those appeals n references to authority and must reads we end up with people failing at the most basic level...
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 12:30 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Unless you read Heidegger on "caring" you won't get a decent handle on its development by M -P to "affordance", In short nothing "IS", what "IS" is an ephemeral subjective propensity for interaction.
On this view statements like "what IS, IS" are total drivel.
There can no intellectual slumming in ontology and epistemology !


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 12:41 pm
@timur,
timur wrote:

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by my reality. In any case...I am asking about REALITY.


Do you think OMSdave's ESP is reality? Have he seen the light and floated above his body?

It's certainly his reality but not mine.

So, what is, is not..


I am not interested in his reality; your reality; or my reality.

We are discussing REALITY.

What difference does it make that some people describe it the way they do.

Whatever IS...IS.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 12:42 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Unless you read Heidegger on "caring" you won't get a decent handle on its development by M -P to "affordance", In short nothing "IS", what "IS" is an ephemeral subjective propensity for interaction.
On this view statements like "what IS, IS" are total drivel.
There can no intellectual slumming in ontology and epistemology !





I'm afraid you are incorrect about that, Fresco. Your posts show that!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jan, 2014 12:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Games are on. Gonna be spending lots of time on them...but I will not forget that you folk are here...and I'll try to sneak back once in a while.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jan, 2014 06:57 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
I can't help but smile...


Please do not feel so all alone because You guys make me smile as well.

I listen to all of your rebuttals and I am amazed at what you all think to be empirical.

What do you have to say about the person Fresco shared with us? "Derrida" Do you think he has anything of value that we should consider? If not why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction

fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2014 02:08 am
@reasoning logic,
I suggest a key difficulty with Derrida is understanding his rejection of "the metaphysics of presence". This means that statements like Fil's " the collection of experiences IS the reality" is also rejected because that statement was made within the flux of a particular context which like the waters of a river cannot re-assume a particular state. So there can be nothing fixed as "reality". There are only instances of agreement/disagreement within the flux.

And this conclusion must be applied to this post itself ! It is not a specification of "reality" or otherwise. It is a temporary node of discourse within discussions of the word "reality". (Tough ! Wink )
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2014 08:50 am
@timur,
timur wrote:

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by my reality. In any case...I am asking about REALITY.


Do you think OMSdave's ESP is reality? Have he seen the light and floated above his body?

It's certainly his reality but not mine.

So, what is, is not..

What perception is, is not.

This only works for your argument if perception is reality. We may assume we are perceiving reality but it would require that humans never fool themselves for our perceptions to always be reality.
 

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