Coming Out

Granted that "coming out" was and is a "crisis" as respects family and friends, but, obviously, family and friends do not constitute the wider world.

There is, however, no rational reason to "come out" in the work place.

I have been in the "work place" for 40 years and have never observed a reason why a gay person had to acknowledge their sexual orientation.

As for the "Armed Forces," the number of individuals who have enlisted is statistically immaterial in terms of overall population trends. The number of gay/lesbians in the "armed forces" is even less statistically material.

Anecdotal evidence (regardless of whether or not it is biased) is not proof of anything.

Your assumption could not be more flawed.

I am not sure what you mean by "acknowledge". Many people at my work met my wife (now ex-wife). That certainly acknowledged my sexual orientation. Everyone I work with knows I am heterosexual, I certainly do nothing to hide it.

There was a time I announced to everyone I came into contact with, from co-workers to the clerk at the local store, that I had heterosexual sex. At the time I was very proud of it (and the miraculous result).

Eh?

I have friends who from you would have been taken as statistically immaterial.

Views on homosexuality have moved on, even in many entrenched abodes, like the Navy.

I take you as about ten years younger than me. Some of that could be balanced re how stupid I was, but then..

Well max you've inadvertanly confirmed my assessment of you.

Since you felt (pathetically) the need to inform everyone that you were heter0sexual you offered up your sexual orientation to public dicourse.

I can promise you that 99% of the people who heard your assurance that you were heterosexual walked away thinking: "This guy is gay.

No value judgment here, but odds are, you are gay. Embrace it!

I disagree with you on numerous fronts and it never has to do with sexual oreintation. I never felt the need to tell anyone that what seemed obvious (a man was heterosexual) and if someone pushed me on the issue I would either:

1) Responded with a withering retort as only I can do
2) Punched the assh*le in the face
3) Left the bar

Whether you are homosexuall or heerosexual is immaterial as respectrs my limited consideration of you. It is also immateria as respects numerous topics in this forum. It is not, however, immaterial as respect any discussions about "Coming Out" or homosexuality in general.

{Max, ideologically, you and I are foes, but our conflict has nothing to do with sexual orientation (My lesbian cousian is far more right than me)

Yeah, yeah.

Makes no sense.

You really missed the point Finn... I suppose that just means you have never had children.

(You really do seem extra cranky today).

you're a legend in your own mind, finny...

no social events in your work history where colleagues are expected to bring along their partners - and their partners are expected not to be same sex?

I've certainly seen it in my work life (of approximately the same vintage as yours).

I've seen people's careers negatively impacted by their employer's discovery that their partners were same sex.

I agree. In my last job my close coworker was gay and no one seemed to care. I didn't know until we went out to dinner and I met his partner. It just wasn't an issue. We got to be friends. Still exchange emails since I left 6 months ago.

Admittedly, such occassions could be difficult for a homosexual who wanted to keep his or her sexual orientation a secret, but if they prefered not to acknowledge their sexual orientation, they didn't have to. They could come alone. They could choose not to come. They could bring a "beard."

The point is that the company Christmas Party never forced anyone gay to come out.

I have worked in what is considered a very conservative industry for quite a long time, and I have had quite a few co-workers who were homosexual. Only in recent years have such co-workers felt comfortable acknowledging their sexual orientation, but none of them suffered for it as a result.

This not to say that gay employees who were fired or not promoted because of their performance might not be certain it was because they were gay. People who fail very often blame everyone and everything else but themselves on their failure.

The sad truth is that the vast majority of corporate employees are at best mediocre, and quite a lot of them are less than that. If you are are a damned good worker you are rare and very, very few managers are going to care who you sleep with.

Attitudes about such things have changed dramatically and it does piss me off that the people who wish to preserve their victim status refuse to acknowledge same.

People who think that corporate life is some sort of dog eat dog, testerone fueled world of Alpha Heterosexual Males have not worked for corporations.

Having said this, the corporate world is highly competitive and some of those who are competing will use any weapon at their disposal, but being gay is no greater a sin then being fat, or being loud, or being nerdy, or being conservative, or being liberal...

How can anyone expect that being gay will ever be matter of fact when being white isn't?

I hasten to add that we are both offering anecdotal evidence which is not all that reliable.

Well, I could say you missed my point. (Forgive me but I don't accept that yours is "the" point).

Maybe I was extra cranky but then you were extra insipid.

BTW: I have three children, all of whom I adore, but I have never seen them as a badge of my heterosexuality.

And you are a douche bag in mine.

now there's a withering retort.



not...

Quipmaster-Rockhead

Shallow in the extreme.

Sure,

But when you found out that you had impregnated your lover, you told everyone of your accomplishment, did you not? At that moment everyone around you was certain (based on what you were announcing to them) that you had had heterosexual sex.

At least that was was true for me.

My only point is that I have made no attempt to hide my sexuality. My co-workers know I am a heterosexual as do my friends. I don't expect anyone else to have to hide theirs.

No, I didn't tell everyone how my sexual intercourse with my wife (how New Age of you to use "lover.") bore fruit. I told them we were having a child.

In the case of my first child it had nothing to do with my heterosexual prowess as he was adopted, and when I told everyone he was coming I didn't think "OMG what will they think about my sexuality?"

Everything isn't about sexual orientation. People can converse quite rationally without thinking about rutting and which orifice is used.

I don't demand anyone hides their orientation. That decision is theirs to make. I'm not going to feel guilty though if they chose to keep it hidden, and I am not going to damn society either. Especially not in 2014.

When you told me you had three children, I assumed correctly that heterosexual intercourse was involved in the process. Having children means having sexual intercourse. Am I missing something here?

I used the word "lover" simply to mean "person you had sex with". You told me you had sex with some woman. You didn't tell me who that woman was. It would have been wrong for me to assume that your lover was your wife (espcially since until now I didn't know you had a wife).

I probably agree with this. Society is in flux on this issue. It is pretty amazing how quickly acceptance of homosexuality has changed.

You have a point. If it coming out in the US isn't already a non-story, it it pretty close.

not at all...we are facing huge problems, so we dont have time to fight about this. The long abortion fight that sucked tons of energy and got us no where (back when we though we had the luxury of fighting over it) set this up. We are exhausted.