Have The Nazis Taken Over?

Rick I am not sure you are right. First of all, you are comparing Nazi's in their worst period (of course, they were bad from beginning) and Bush in his beginning. They both had/have same ilusions of God speaking directly to them, for start.
With all due respect, as much as John probably does exaggerate and simplifies a bit, I think that you are doing same thing (simplifying). Do you REALLY have to kill million women and children to be a Nazi? You can as well say that neo-nazi's in Germany today are not real Nazi's because you don't see them killing women and children in concentracion camps.
Connecting electrods to genitals of iraqi prisoners, urinating on them, torturing them in all possible ways especially in most undignified sexual ways is not enough? Because they are not children? Does fact that Hitler really was worse means that Bush is not behaving like Nazi?

http://www.falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

I really suggest you to read some of it. Just a short preview from one of many links to many articles:

The basic stratagem of these so-called "critics" is to compartmentalize Hitler's legacy into a simplistic formula: Hitler created the horrors of the Holocaust and since Bush (the argument goes) has not created a Holocaust, Bush is not comparable to Hitler. What this formula fails to acknowledge, however, is that Hitler was not created in a vacuum, and he did not ignite the horrors of the Holocaust until he had corruptly obtained the political power to do so. It was the manner in which he attained this power that is analogous to the political machinations of the Bush dictatorship.

It's useless.

The mere fact that these idiots are free to make their outrageous claims is sufficient proof that Nazis do not rule the US. Of course they would have you believe that they are brave resistance fighters who are willing to sacrifice their liberty or even their lives to get out the truth.

Now here comes the response to this post: "Yeah, well just you wait. Pretty soon A2K will be shut down!" Or, better still, "You're just like the people who fell in line with Hitler!"

How can you rationally debate those who are irrational? How can you intelligently debate the ignorant?

OK then, we're agreed.

USA today is not the same as Germany in the 1930s.

But, consider what lay behind the question:

Tearing up of international treaties, ignoring the law, manipulation of the media, lying to the people, strange quasi-religious beliefs of leading administration members, Gott mit uns/ God Is On Our Side, misuse of overwhelming military power, selfish demands that one country be favoured over all others, claims of superiority (of culture, if not of race)...

I don't know if it worries you, but it concerns me.

post sent twice, once deleted

1. Abuzz, does anyone called you idiot? I believe this shows more then anything who has problems here.

2. Are we arguing about connections between Bush and Hitler or Bush's govt. and Nazi govt. or about if USA 2004 is same as Germany 1934? If latter, then no, you can fly happy as butterfly, USA 2004 is not same as Germany 1934. Although USA 2004 is absolutely worst country when it comes to basic civil rights - of course, of those in civilized world, I suppose it's even worse in Saudi Arabia. E.g. not only that there is no normal and democratic country, there is not even country that just PRETENDS to be normal and democratic and in which is in the same time possible that someone gets fired because taking a photo of coffins. Extreme violations of basic human rights of Arab Americans after 9/11 is another example.

3. Ideology is not simple issue like you are trying to persuade us. Communism in Soviet Union, communism in Laos and communism in ex Yugoslavia are three extremely different societies. So, I suppose Tito is not communist, because he haven't sent few million people to Gulag? Nazism is ideology, and they don't have Holocaust written in their proclamations.

Abuzz, one of the problems is that every few days, in a blaze of international headlines, new examples of Nazi-style atrocities come to light, carried out under the authority of the administration.

All that happened under Bill Clinton or most of his predecessors was far less harmful to the world-status and friendship with the U.S. than blatant acts of Nazism.

You liberals need to stop getting this crap from MoveOn.org and get something original. This Nazi/Hitler stuff is worn out.

You guys just can't deal with a decent, moral man who means what he says and says what he means and does what he says he is going to do. You just can't stand it, can you? You want a Bill Clinton B.S.er back, eh? Well, you may want to consider the safety of your children before voting that way.

By the way, I am registered. Any of you liberals registered yet? Or are you going after the "chads" again?

To answer this question:

I'm a member of the "Social Democratic Party of Germany".

In my opinion GWB is not a Nazi. We cannot compare GWB with Hitler who was a massmurderer, but GWB abuses his authority to assist moneygrabbing US Oil-companies under the disguise to fight for democratic and human rights.

Peter S., is there any basic difference between results during invasions, when thousands of innocents die by Hitler's or Bush's bombs?

Presumably not to the victims?

And that would explain the current near-record-high price of oil world-wide, right? Sorry, Peter, the evidence is inconvenient to your argument.

Oil
Current price of oil has what to do with whether this Regime is NeoFascist?

I could use another names then: Corporatist, Plutocracy, Qaisi Police State, Oligarchy Ultra-Right Wing Imperialistic.

Question: Who earns the money?

John Webb: Good answer, I agree.

I am sorry Abbuz for "attacking" you on "idiots remark" previously. After all, we have totally different opinions and now I see that different opinion sometimes can make you wish to tell someone that he is complete idiot. I will not do that, but it only means that I am just a bit calmer then you are.
I don't, however, think anyone from "our side" touched skylimit as it is touched in this post but you are on opposite side so you can feel differently

but after bit of thinking I will actually rephrase myself. Bush's USA is not like Nazi Germany. It is pure communism actually - I lived in it for 20 years.
Of course, there is one (but only ONE) major difference - you have free elections? Or, do you? How do you call it when president becomes person with less votes? And does that count as more democratic then no elections at all?

ah, damn, I am so unstable person...now I am thinking they maybe ARE Nazi's - some of numerous quotes (with links provided) on topic "US General suspended over abuse of iraqi prisoners" - oh, silly me, but they are not Nazi's, they are not doing this to women and children, and so far they didn't manage to do it to six million people.

What have I learned about this thread? That it is very hard to explain why Hitler and Bush differ so much, one because English is not my mother tongue, second because I'm afraid I get too angry when I read all this, which makes my posts just lousy to read.

Imagine, living in a country, where you are judged on your "race", political views and mental abilities, and where the top leadership supports these ideas, and not only that, no, even makes plans to get rid of these "elements". A leadership which controls all facets of life. Probably, some people will say: we are talking about Hitler and his nazi's, as well as Bush and his Republicans. I will say: you don't understand what I just said. Hitler and his nazi's controlled all facets of life, driven by a racist ideology. Probably the same people will say: Bush and their Republicans are also driven by an ideology, to bring their "so-called" democracy to other countries in the world, which actually means "we are going to occupy and indoctrine the rest of the world", and to get rid of all dangerous "elements" (Al Qaida, "terrorists", probably the whole of Islam, some may think). So they are essentially the same.

FALSE.

Although I do oppose the pre-emptive strike(s) of George W. Bush, and I do oppose a lot of political views of this man, there is, to begin, a basic element that differs Hitler and Bush. Hitler used democracy to get what he want - and got rid of it after he had used it. He found it weak, "Anglosaxon", not made for such a Herren nation as the Germans. Bush uses it too. But (1) for what I know, he has never said that he opposes the idea. He never got rid of it after he gained power. He never used it to remove all of his political opponents. He has selfcriticism (although I admit he's not leading in it), but he also has to portrait himself as the American people - seem - to want: a strong leader, fit, with a lot of charisma. Like Hitler, some may say.

Than: is George W. Bush driven by a racist background? "He's from Texas". "His family supported Hitler and his nazi party". Fact is, that Bush has Afro-Americans in his government. Is it only to look good? To gain votes in the Afro-American community? At least, Hitler did not have Jews in his government. He wanted to destroy them! They were Untermenschen. Does Bush think that non-Christians, non-white people are Untermenschen? Although it is nice to believe the worst, probably not. Bush knows that America is a multicultural society, and that Afro-Americans are as much American as "white" Americans. And even IF he DOES think in such a racist manner, he will never say it, and will probably never use it. Because eventually Bush, or at least his Republican Party, knows where its about. There is no racial fight going on.

America is not a totalitarian state. A lot of conspiracies seem to say the other thing, that the American government is EVERYWHERE, wants to RULE the world, and get rid of everything that stands in their way. The proof presented to me a lot of times is always highly dubious.

What I pointed out above are just elements, details, not the whole story. The nazi's where much more, MUCH more. I saw what they did to my country. Their ideologies, their way of working, their hate. It can not be compared to Bush and the Republicans, how hard you try.

he has Afro-Americans in government? how about Arab Americans? Is he fighting in Africa or something? I mean, when you keep mentioning black people all the time (note: as well as in all other countries of the world except USA, for me it is perfectly normal to say that someone is black /or white/, there is nothing racistic in that).
And actually, about your question - does Bush thinks that non-Christians and non-white people are Untermenschen? I will answer exactly opposite from you. It would be nice to believe best, but he probably does.

Rick, have you at least tried to read what they are doing to iraqi prisoners? Have you tried to read Bush's speeches, compared with Hitler's? Do you understand that Hitler haven't done ANYTHING to your country when he was in power for 3-4 years? Do you understand difference of world in 30's and 40's when you were able to have concentration camps for your lunatic ideas and for people around the world not knowing anything about it until allied forces won the war? Do you understand that we are comparing Bush to Hitler, and not USA to Germany in, let's say, 1941st? Are you aware that you can't actually just make totalitarian state in country of 300 million people even if you want to? And that you can, instead, give those people feelings that they have democratic elections? Do you KNOW that president of USA is man that got LESS votes on elections?
USA govt. wants to rule the world is dubious opinion for you?

Fact is that you are entitled to your opinion, but I think that those opinions are dangerous. Because if you will compare every single modern idiot to Hitler and if you will wait for every single idiot to "catch" Hitler in crimes and atrocities, and protect every single idiot until he catches Hitler, then you will end up with lot of smaller or bigger Hitlers.

Once again, because from your arguments it seems that you don't understand it - we are comparing Bush to Hitler, not USA today with Germany in late 30's and early 40's. And fact that Hitler actually WAS worse then Bush does not change a thing. Hitler was much worse then Mussollini as well. And they were same-minded allies.

I don't see a single point in your devoted protection of Bush. You don't see that, you don't see this, you don't see that, you don't see this...
I don't see palestinian terrorists or israeli government having concentracion camps, I don't see Al-Qaeda thinking that Afro-Americans are Untermenschen, I don't see Saddam Hussein driven by racist ideology, and I don't see any of those people killing six million Jews, so what? Does that mean those are nice, strong, fit, charismatic people? Or that I will write long posts to say that they are not exactly the same as Hitler because German Nazi's "accomplished" much more then them??

And, if USA is not at all in situation in which Germany was in early 30's, so it is impossible for a lunatic to accomplish what Hitler accomplished back then in Germany, how does that mean that particular lunatic is not dangerous lunatic? It only means that american society today is better then german society in 30's. It says absolutely nothing about Bush....

These are crimes under US military law. They were not authorized or ordered by President Bush, and he has stated that he is disgusted by them.


Why is it absolutely the worst? Please give examples.


The government policy (dating from 1992, long before President Bush) prohibiting photography of the coffins of returning military dead had nothing to do with the system of government. The system of government of the United States is called Representative Democracy.


Again, please give examples to justify your accusation.


You lived in the USA, or you lived in communism? I can assure you that the US government is not communist.


We call it the Electoral College, and it is the way we elect our President.




What is your point here?


Not only dubious but also rather silly.


And I think many of your opinions are not dangerous, but just silly, having no basis in fact.


Not untermenschen but infidels. Not much difference when you think about it.

Some of the things you are saying make sense, but many of your statements are worthy only of ridicule. Do you make these things up yourself or do you have a source of information that tells you such lies?

paultheeggman, welcome aboard and thanks for posting.

I am in office now so I'll try to find it for you later (as for examples) although I am sure that Americans on this topic will find some themselves - I can only mention behaviour towards Arab Americans after 9/11, and I mean especially towards respectfull members of society like college professors - I can also, instead of looking for links on net, suggest you to read at least one of Michael Moore's books - he's an American that lives in America, right?
I also can't understand how you missed point in pointing similarity of Hitler's and Bush's speeches. You may say that I am lying, or, better, that those quotes on link I provided are pure lie - but I really don't see how you missed point.

That's the way we elect president is rather silly argument in my opinion. You can cut all complications and simply have normal electoral process but with order that candidate with less votes is president. That way you will not need to count votes longer then Serbs.

Prohibiting photography of soldier's coffins has everything to do with democracy. And I haven't said that it's Bush's invention.

As for the communism you kinda have point, but this point also takes away your right for claiming that USA govt. has no characteristics of communistic govt. Because, yeah, I lived in communism but am not living in USA, and you are living in USA but I suppose you never lived in communism. If you lived then I withdraw.