Snowdon is a dummy

Go ahead, give him a fair trial... What's stopping you?

He is.

No he's not, plenty of people have been tried in absentia. Martin Bormann springs to mind.

Which program is that?



What argumen would that be?



The phone metadata collection is what PRISM authorized.


Yeah, that's the regime's argument as well.

What programs are you talking about?

Way above my pay grade, Olivier.

There are procedures for taking people to trial.

You do realize that, right?

You have my word...I did not take Martin Bormann to trial.

So the US can't give him a fair trial?

Despite the reality you and I disagree with one another passionately, I have tried to be sensitive to your feelings, Olivier. After all, we are supposed to be civilized. One must not confuse one’s loyalty to one’s country with political ideology…the two are separate; we should not become so enraged because another disagrees, forcing one to stoop to the lowest denomination to put the opposition down.

My country, America, is where my roots are and my love of country is divorced from the politics therein; administrations, Democrats and Republicans, come and go, changing every 4 or 8 years, but the place of my birth remains. Most of the time I am most vocal of my country and one of the reasons for that is because I want it to survive and grow stronger. I speak out, write to my congressmen, become involved with issues, post on sites like this one to relieve inner anxieties, exchange ideas. But the idea that if I had access to highly classified government files I would leave my country like a sneaking rat, giving this information to people in foreign lands, is one of the most vile acts one can commit against their native country. I despise traitors of their country with every fiber of my being. The US government is set up in such a manner that if one discovers something is wrong within the system, then one may tell someone in authority without staining the US reputation abroad, without weakening the fibre of the country of one’s homeland by making said country a target.

What is it with you, Oliver. I ended my last post to you saying have a good summer, but you pounce, inferring I was worshipping authority, in your opinion. Or hinting I am narrow-minded and Snowden had a broader view. I don’t have to justify why I feel the way I do to you. I am exceedingly critical of authority, very much; if you think Snowden has the right attitude, well kudos for you and Snowden! Why do you feel the need to denigrate me because I disagree with your position? Is it because you are a natural whiner, insisting on forcing your opinions down others’ throat or forcing your opponent to give in to you out of sheer exasperation? If that is your modus operandi, you’ve got a hell of a long wait for this poster to yield!

Oh, and yes, I am damn loyal to my country, but not as you infer, ridiculously so. I would not cunningly scurry away to tarnish my country before the entire world…I would keep it in the family! The only way I would think of leaving the US for another country was if, by some freakish chance, Texas Ted Cruz were to become president of the US; I would leave like yesterday.

Of course, the US can give him a fair trial, Olivier.

You were addressing your remarks to me...and I do not have the authority to conduct a trial.

He deserves a fair trial...and I am convinced that if he returns to the US to answer the charges filed against him...he will get a fair trial.

Olivier has a tendency to confuse love of one's country for "my country right or wrong."

I agree with almost all that you wrote in response to him...and I can say that although I feel a loyalty to my country (just as I feel a loyalty to humanity in general)...I am certainly not so infatuated that I will not speak out when I see it doing wrong.

Some people can understand that...some people block it out. Right now you are engaged with Olivier, who gives every indication that he is intent on blocking out the reasonable position you are taking.

"My country, right or wrong?" This phrase is often quoted in times of blind so-called patriotism and imperialistic nationalism. The phrase itself is as old as it is stupid.

Well, it is my country, right or wrong. I will not disown my country because of an administration's policies I abhor. I was on pins and needles during the W administration and I tore him and Dick Cheney new a**holes every chance I could on message boards, but I never disowned my country.

Snowden hasn't disowned his country either, just pointed out some of the bad things it's doing.

Instead of spying on Merkel you should have been spying on Blatter.

did you already forget what you said you'd do if Ted Cruz became president?

Now that is a matter of one's personal intuitive recognition. You perceive him as a hero. I do not!



Ah, you should engage my husband regarding the disgraced Blatter as he's into sports. I'm delighted Blatter was forced to resign. Soccer is not my forté.

My remarks were facetious. I really didn't think it needed explanation. Administrations come and go. I could live through a Cruz administration and release my inner tensions by pointing out his myriad faults 24/7.

I still don't understand how one can say that Snowden betrayed his country. IMO he helped his country, and showed courage in doing so. But I'm totally fine with us disagreeing on this point. In fact, whether he did or did not betray his country doesn't really matter to me. This is not about one man inner psychology, it's about how your nation protects itself while protecting civil liberties at the same time.

Can't the US trial him in abstentia? That would clear his name. Case closed.

It really is not about "betrayal." It is about the three charges brought against Snowden.

Theft of government property...to wit, classified documents.

Unauthorized communications of National Defense information.

Willful communications of classified documents to an unauthorised person.


That is what he should be tried for.

Perhaps they can (I am not a lawyer) but are not doing so because the authorities with the responsibility for that decision have chosen not to do so.

That's the way the law works here.

Case closed!