Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

From what I understand the report is about the program called, Stellarwind, which was the government spying without warrants or going through FISA. Later in 2007 changes were made, according to your source, these changes removed the restrictions which hampered FBI agents and analyst access. Also, after 2007 the Bush administration had to go through FISA.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Good find!

It's in today's NYT.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

Critics of the phone records programme, which allows the NSA to hunt for communications between terrorists abroad and US residents, argue it has not proven to be an effective counterterrorism tool. They also say an intelligence agency has no business possessing the deeply personal records of Americans. Many favour a system under which the NSA can obtain court orders to query records held by the phone companies.

The Patriot Act expires on 1 June, and Senate Republicans have introduced a bill that would allow continued collection of call records of nearly every American. The legislation would reauthorise sections of the Patriot Act, including the provision under which the NSA requires phone companies to turn over the “to and from” records of most domestic landline calls.

Source

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Quote:
David Petraeus: Ex-CIA Director Given 2 Years Probation, $100,000 Fine for Leaking Classified Info

Petraeus pled guilty in March to one federal charge for sharing classified information with his biographer and lover, Paula Broadwell. He will avoid jail time as part of the plea deal.

this guy isn't a traitor?

Correct. He is not.

ehBeth wrote:

given Snowden the same deal/punishment and call it all even

No.

Snowden did more damage to US security than Jonathan Pollard ever did. He should serve at least as much time as Jonathan Pollard.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I might be a little confused about the specific programs which changed, but I was speaking of the link you left before which talked about how the previous administration didn't go through the FISA courts. That officially changed in 2008. It is on the link you left on page 12

in your previous link

I have agreed that changes need to be made to be more efficient and I hope they are and the republicans leaders start listening to the critics with an open mind.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

It has often been said that NASA's spying on allies was just done for security reasons. Now it's clear that NASA spied at least on EADS and Eurocopter. (More business companies to come.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Good point, Walt.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

It has often been said that NASA's spying on allies was just done for security reasons. Now it's clear that NASA spied at least on EADS and Eurocopter. (More business companies to come.)

NASA???

If you meant "It has often been said that the NSA's spying on allies was just done for security reasons. Now it's clear that the NSA spied at least on EADS and Eurocopter"...

...I would ask:

Do you have definitive evidence that the reason the NSA spied on EADS and Eurocopter was NOT for security reasons?

Are you suggesting that the only security threats that can exist...have to come from non-commercial enterprises?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Do you have definitive evidence that the reason the NSA spied on EADS and Eurocopter was NOT for security reasons?

Are you suggesting that the only security threats that can exist...have to come from non-commercial enterprises?

Okay. I admit: EADS and Eurocopter can a security thread for USA as the other businesses which aren't published so far.

I hope, you are happy now.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter...actually, I am not sure what you just said...

...but I am very happy anyway.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

EADS, Eurocopter and all the other businesses can be a security thread for the USA and thus have been spied on by NSA.
The Federal Minister for Special Affairs and Chief of Staff in the Chancellery is still negotiating with the US-government, which businesses and names of politicians and businesspeople, the NSA spied on, can be published respectively named to the parliamentary committee.

I'm sure, the USA is cooperative and gives most names ... Very Happy

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

According to Ulrich Grillo, the president of the BDI (that's the umbrella association of the German industry) the relationship between [the German Federal] government and [the German] industry is now significantly impacted. The BDI is shocked that the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) has supported US industrial espionage against the German industry for years.

Additonally it just has been published by several media that the BND helped NSA to spy on the French foreign office, the Palais de l'Élysée, and the EU-Commission.

Security threats can exist everywhere, isn't it? Why only spy on US-citizen, if it easily can be done with German help from German soil? Evil or Very Mad

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Additonally it just has been published by several media that the BND helped NSA to spy on the French foreign office, the Palais de l'Élysée, and the EU-Commission.

Oh that's swell... Why did they do so? What was in it for them German spooks?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Additonally it just has been published by several media that the BND helped NSA to spy on the French foreign office, the Palais de l'Élysée, and the EU-Commission.

Oh that's swell... Why did they do so? What was in it for them German spooks?

The United States had tried to spy on the defense contractor EADS and Eurocopter. These tests, as a secret paper was discovered by the BND in 2005 and’ stopped after’. Our government has confirmed the existence of this paper.
However, they said, they didn't know about it until March.
Now, more comes out that the Americans could spy with the help of the BND on other German businesses, and foreign institutions.

The BND gets these data from the (ex-American) listening station Bad Aibling. According to an agreement of 2002, the BND had the Americans allowed that they may provide search terms such as phone numbers or e -mail addresses and the BND scans his reconnaissance for these.
Excluded here were findings on German citizens and German or European economic interests

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

If this was a John Le Carré novel, the channel once discovered would be kept quietly open but fed with bogus info.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Spying at John Le Carré's time was a lot more arts and craft. Very Happy

But seriously: the equivalent of what obviously happened would have been if Germany had asked the NSA to spy on NASA, Boeing, and the UK; requesting that no information about the matter be passed Barack Obama, to ensure no damage would be done to the relationship between the two countries.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Okay. I admit: EADS and Eurocopter can a security thread for USA as the other businesses which aren't published so far.
I hope, you are happy now.

Or maybe certain individuals within those corporations were a threat.

Or maybe the US government was interested in knowing the capabilities of the various weapon systems produced. There is nothing to suggest that this information was obtained for the benefit of US industry.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The BDI is shocked that the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) has supported US industrial espionage against the German industry for years.

No such industrial espionage. There is no reason to think that the US uses this intelligence to benefit US corporations.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

There is no reason to think that the US uses this intelligence to benefit US corporations.

LOL

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

oralloy wrote:
There is no reason to think that the US uses this intelligence to benefit US corporations.

LOL

Facts are facts. The US government does not engage in industrial espionage.

The governments of France and China do.

3 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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