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Snowdon is a dummy

Forums: Politics, Snowden, Asylum, Nsa, Snowdon
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BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 05:43 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Facts are facts. The US government does not engage in industrial espionage.

The governments of France and China do.


Nonsense and the US government had have a long long history of taking down governments for the benefit of US corporations for that matter.

Indurstrial espionage is a minor misdeed in relationship to such a history.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 05:52 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
The USA engage in MASSIVE industrial espionnage. So massive that it undermines free trade.

No. The governments of France and China do that. The United States government does not.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 05:52 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Facts are facts. The US government does not engage in industrial espionage.
The governments of France and China do.

Nonsense

Facts are not nonsense. The US government does not engage in industrial espionage. The governments of China and France do.


BillRM wrote:
and the US government had have a long long history of taking down governments for the benefit of US corporations for that matter.

It is debatable how much of that history is true.

Regardless, even where that is true, it does not change the reality that the US government does not engage in industrial espionage.


BillRM wrote:
Indurstrial espionage is a minor misdeed in relationship to such a history.

A minor misdeed that the US government has not committed.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 05:59 am
@oralloy,
It's been proven and documented. Ignore the facts if they disturb you.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 06:09 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
It's been proven and documented.

Oh? How about a cite?


Olivier5 wrote:
Ignore the facts

Never!
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:06 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
No such industrial espionage. There is no reason to think that the US uses this intelligence to benefit US corporations.
So actually why do/did they do this espionage on businesses?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:09 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Facts are facts. The US government does not engage in industrial espionage.
NSA did spy at least on Eurocopter and ESA. There most certainly will be some other companies and businesses among the 400,000 aims ... and I'm rather sure that names will come shortly.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:11 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
No such industrial espionage. There is no reason to think that the US uses this intelligence to benefit US corporations.

So actually why do/did they do this espionage on businesses?

Like I speculated before, maybe certain individuals within those corporations were a threat.

Or maybe the US government was interested in knowing the capabilities of the various weapon systems produced.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
NSA did spy at least on Eurocopter and ESA.

But not for the benefit of US corporations.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:15 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Oh? How about a cite?
Since 2008 the German Chancellery knew that NSA was spying on ESA and Eurocopter. At least two BND-documents prove that this happened between at least 2008 and 2010. Source: numerous newspaper reports about what had been admitted.
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Oh? How about a cite?

Since 2008 the German Chancellery knew that NSA was spying on ESA and Eurocopter. At least two BND-documents prove that this happened between at least 2008 and 2010.

Are there any documents proving that the spying was done for the benefit of US corporations?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:19 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Or maybe the US government was interested in knowing the capabilities of the various weapon systems produced.
I'm not aware that the European Space Agency produces weapons. Airbus Helicopters (formerly Eurocopter Group) does neither.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:22 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Are there any documents proving that the spying was done for the benefit of US corporations?
I've never got the idea that any espionage done by a state could be done for private businesses. But obviously I really don't understand that businesses could be owners of a government.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Or maybe the US government was interested in knowing the capabilities of the various weapon systems produced.

I'm not aware that the European Space Agency produces weapons. Airbus Helicopters (formerly Eurocopter Group) does neither.

Well maybe the US government was interested in the capabilities of their non-weapons systems.

Maybe someone else was hacking them, and what the NSA was doing was helping to defend them.

Who knows. But whatever the reason was, it wasn't so the NSA could take information and hand it over to US companies.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 07:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I've never got the idea that any espionage done by a state could be done for private businesses.

The governments of France and China do it all the time. They try to minimize their complicity by falsely accusing the US of also doing it.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
But obviously I really don't understand that businesses could be owners of a government.

I'm not sure that a government is really something that can be owned.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 08:24 am
@oralloy,
They have spied on Airbus, Siemens, etc. Nothing to do with anti-terrorism.
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:00 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Nothing to do with anti-terrorism.

Says who?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:03 am
@oralloy,
Says me.

Who says it has anything to do with anti-terrorism?
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:03 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Olivier5 wrote:
Nothing to do with anti-terrorism.

Says who?


Everything seems to have to do with anti-terrorism or so it is being claimed.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 30 Apr, 2015 09:17 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Says me.

Where is your evidence?


Olivier5 wrote:
Who says it has anything to do with anti-terrorism?

I don't know. I've not heard any credible claims regarding what the spying was for.
 

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