42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 8 Dec, 2014 01:07 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Lately I have been trying my best for my own peace of mind to follow an old piece of advice, "if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all." Needless to say, I haven't had much to say lately.

Quote:
This, however, is something I do not understand: how could his report invite "all of us" and "to join" him?


Frank is saying, (how you can't see it, I am not sure) is that with the report, if nations follow it, it would be detrimental t0 nations safety.

I am not saying I agree, just clarifying his pretty obvious point.

On the point, I think it is been determine some time ago that mass spying is not really efficient so on that basis, I think it might need to be retooled.


That is exactly what I was saying, Revelette. Thank you.

I understand that you (and many others) do not necessarily agree that the "mass spying" (which I do not think is actually what is happening) is efficient. Jury is still out for me on that...but I am going to let the people entrusted with the duty to protect us to make those decisions...until I am absolutely convinced they are making the wrong decisions.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 8 Dec, 2014 02:12 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
In fact, I have said more than once that I don't think mass data spying works too well. Take ISIS taking most everyone by surprise.


BINGO! You won the rational game.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 8 Dec, 2014 06:27 pm
@revelette2,
The French spy a lot, on themselves too. We're no angels. I just hope we're more FOCUSSED.
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 08:25 am
@Olivier5,
I hope we become (or have become)more focused as well. Personally I don't like these pi***ing contest we all seem to engage in between nationalities.
Thomas
 
  3  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 10:37 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
My point to Oliver was he acted as though Europe is somehow immune to Muslim extremist terrorism.

Quote:
but I think Europe will survive Islamic terror...

I'm still not following. How does Oliver's quote support your point? Just because you can survive a disease, that doesn't mean you're immune to it.
BillRM
 
  3  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 10:39 am
Quote:


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/19/utah-lawmaker-proposes-bill-to-shut-off-massive-nsa-facilitys-water-supply/

Utah Lawmaker Proposes Bill to Shut Off Massive NSA Data Storage Facility’s Water Supply
Nov. 19, 2014 9:23pm Associated Press
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SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A Utah lawmaker concerned about government spying on its citizens is questioning whether city water service should be cut off to a massive National Security Agency data storage facility outside Salt Lake City.

Republican Rep. Marc Roberts, of Santaquin, said there are serious questions about privacy and surveillance surrounding the center, and several Utah residents who spoke at a legislative committee hearing Wednesday agreed.

During the last legislative session, lawmakers opted to hold off on Roberts’ bill to shut off the facility’s water and decided to study it during the interim.

Electrical failures are complicating the opening of the National Security Agency s largest data storage center. The Army Corps of Engineers says it discovered the problem during tests ahead the fall opening of the $1.7 billion facility located south of Salt Lake City on a National Guard base. Credit: AP<
FILE – A June 6, 2013, file photo, is an aerial view of the NSA’s Utah Data Center in Bluffdale, Utah. Electrical failures are complicating the opening of the National Security Agency s largest data storage center. The Army Corps of Engineers says it discovered the problem during tests ahead the fall opening of the $1.7 billion facility located south of Salt Lake City on a National Guard base. Credit: AP<
“This is not a bill just about a data center. This is a bill about civil rights,” web developer Joe Levi said. “This is a bill that needs to be taken up and needs to be taken seriously.”

Pete Ashdown, founder of Salt Lake City-based Internet provider XMission, called the center a stain upon the state and its technology industry. “I do encourage you to stand up and do something about it,” he said.

Lawmakers said they aren’t considering shutting down $1.7 billion facility, but the committee chair acknowledged the concerns and said there might be another way to get the point across. “We may look at some type of a strong message to give our representatives to take back to Congress,” said Republican Sen. David Hinkins, of Orangeville.


The NSA’s largest data storage center in the U.S. was built in Utah over 37 other locations because of open land and cheap electricity. The center sits on a National Guard base about 25 miles south of Salt Lake City in the town of Bluffdale.

NSA officials said the center is key to protecting national security networks and allowing U.S. authorities to watch for cyber threats. Beyond that, the agency has offered few details.

The center attracted much discussion and concern after revelations last year that the NSA has been collecting millions of U.S. phone records and digital communications stored by major Internet providers.

Cybersecurity experts say the nondescript Utah facility is a giant storehouse for phone calls, emails and online records that have been secretly collected.

Outside the computer storehouses are large coolers that keep the machines from overheating. The coolers use large amounts of water, which the nearby city of Bluffdale sells to the center at a discounted rate.

City records released earlier this year showed monthly water use was much less than the 1 million gallons a day that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers predicted the center would need, causing some to wonder if the center was fully operational.

NSA officials have refused to say if the center is up and running after its scheduled opening in October 2013 was stalled by electrical problems.

City utility records showed the NSA has been making monthly minimum payments of about $30,000 to Bluffdale. The city manager said that pays for more water than the center used.

The state of Nevada shut off water to the site of the proposed Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas in 2002, after months of threats.

The project didn’t run dry because the Energy Department built a 1-million-gallon tank and a small well for the site. Department officials said the stored water, plus 400,000 gallons stored in other tanks at the Nevada Test Site, provided time for scientists to continue experiments and design work at the site.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 11:32 am
@revelette2,
It becomes a contest because you guys (Frank and you) take any critique of the US personally. No need to react defensively. If you want to take issue with French spying, i'm not going to behave as a kid whose mother has been insulted...
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 11:45 am
@revelette2,
Let's stay away from hyperbole for a moment. Frank said that getting rid of mass spying would be suicidal. I just said Europe has survived much much worse than any of this so-called 'terror', so even if mass spying helped against terrorists, which it does not, we would be fine and mellow.

We will survive this with or without mass spying. No suicide whatsoever, therefore.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 12:18 pm
@Olivier5,
No need for you to because no one insults your mother so to speak until after you insult ours as though ours is the only worthy of insult. It is like a fat person calling someone fat, then that person saying, "well, look at you" and then the first person saying, "fine I know I am fat but I am not going to get all insulted because you called me fat."
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 12:22 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
I'm still not following. How does Oliver's quote support your point? Just because you can survive a disease, that doesn't mean you're immune to it.


I doubt France just shrugs their shoulders in a French way if they are attacked by terrorist. If a person survives a disease such as cancer, it is usually through exhaustive treatment.
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 01:03 pm
Easy to remember why this thread was dying out.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 01:10 pm
Personally I think the spying stuff is just too common for all countries to get all bothered about the US doing it when there is so much worse to talk about. For instance:

16 absolutely outrageous abuses detailed in the CIA torture report

In my honestly held opinion, the US needs to search long and hard to find a way to at least touch on reparations for these horrible wrongs. However, I think like other horrible things in the pasts, it is just something that we have to live with for our country having done it and we for the most part, supported and encouraged. We can't just blame the government on this, this on all of us in the US.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 03:35 pm
@revelette2,
What you miss is that France was the victim of much islamic terror in the 80s and 90s. We've gone through the whole charade of spying on mosques and internet muslim networks years before the US. A few years before 9/11, some Algerians planned to fly a highjacked Air France plane into the Eiffel tower... That plan was foiled.

Why do you think we are fighting in Mali? It not just because we like the Malians... It's also self-protection. Same thing in Iraq: France is the second western contributor (after the US) to the anti-ISIS coalition, and no, it's not because we have a soft spot for the Americans...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 03:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

It becomes a contest because you guys (Frank and you) take any critique of the US personally.


I do not. I often criticize the US myself...and support some of the criticism I hear. But some of it is excessive and way, way out-of-line...and that kind of crap I do argue against.

Quote:
No need to react defensively.


And no need to distort what I say and do...but you do it. So why get bothered when others do stuff like that?

Quote:

If you want to take issue with French spying, i'm not going to behave as a kid whose mother has been insulted...


Yeah...the French are like that...not much into being insulted from the outside!!!! (Lots and lots of sarcasm being used there.)

Gimme a break!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 04:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
At least, the French stopped spying in Germany on Germans in 1994:
Quote:
« Pour les Allemands c’était une très bonne chose, mais pour nous (les agents de renseignement) c’était la fin de Berlin. Disons que ça n’a pas fait de bien à tout le monde (rires). Les forces alliées, c’était fini, l’occupation de Berlin c’était fini. Pendant trois ou quatre mois on a végété et très vite, les premiers éléments de forces françaises ont commencé à partir.

Moi je suis resté jusqu’en 1994. J’ai été muté sur un autre centre au terrain militaire de Tegel dans la zone française où nous avions un centre d’écoute avec l’autorisation du BND (l’équivalent allemand de la DGSE). On écoutait surtout au-delà de l’ex-RDA. Moi je m’occupais de la sécurité. J’ai été un des derniers à quitter Berlin, j’ai même assuré la dernière garde de la base militaire, c’était la toute dernière nuit. »
Source

(The American equivalent to Tegel, Teufelsberg, was only closed in 2011 Wink )

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 04:21 pm
@Olivier5,
So, what, are we in a contest now on which country, France or America has had the most terrorist plots before 9/11? Chances are you guys will win I guess. I know there were at least two notable attacks before 9/11 in the US, but I don't really know of any others.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 06:14 pm
@revelette2,
I was just reacting to:

Quote:
I doubt France just shrugs their shoulders in a French way if they are attacked by terrorist.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Life goes on. No need to make such a huge deal out of it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 9 Dec, 2014 07:46 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I was just reacting to:

Quote:
I doubt France just shrugs their shoulders in a French way if they are attacked by terrorist.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Life goes on. No need to make such a huge deal out of it.


Right.

The French go ape when English is used where it makes sense...but they would not make a big deal out of this!

C'mon, Olivier...talk like a Frenchman...rather than an American or Canadian masquerading as a true Frenchman.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 10 Dec, 2014 08:29 am
@Frank Apisa,
You mean like your stereotype of a Frenchman should talk? Sorry, i must have misplaced my beret...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 10 Dec, 2014 08:54 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You mean like your stereotype of a Frenchman should talk? Sorry, i must have misplaced my beret...


You were the one saying what "Frenchmen" would do. I was merely countering.

And the French leaders do spend more time than necessary making sure English does not invade French.
 

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