41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2014 12:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The above mentioned report in English: War on Whistleblowers: Berlin Gets Serious in the Search for Moles
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I can understand the government's concern when military secrets get leaked and when their investigative committees information get leaked to NSA. It seem sort of a quandary trying to find the freedom of the press and trying to keep confidential information, confidential.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 06:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
This is empty gesticulation. No modern society can prevent leaks. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that state machinaries that require thousands of staffers will be able to retain many secrets from their citizens. It just doesn't work. Worse than that: these large modern state machinaries REQUIRE leaks in order to work somehow, or they become totally kafkaian.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2014 09:40 am
Snowden is insofar still in the media since quite a few new of his documents were published today
http://i62.tinypic.com/28sc9cx.jpg
Quote:
According to documents contained in the archive of material provided to The Intercept by whistleblower Edward Snowden, the NSA has spied on hundreds of companies and organizations internationally, including in countries closely allied to the United States, in an effort to find security weaknesses in cellphone technology that it can exploit for surveillance.
[...]
The NSA documents reveal that, as of May 2012, the agency had collected technical information on about 70 percent of cellphone networks worldwide—701 of an estimated 985—and was maintaining a list of 1,201 email “selectors” used to intercept internal company details from employees. (“Selector” is an agency term for a unique identifier like an email address or phone number.) From November 2011 to April 2012, between 363 and 1,354 selectors were “tasked” by the NSA for surveillance each month as part of AURORAGOLD, according to the documents. The secret operation appears to have been active since at least 2010.
[...]
One of the prime targets monitored under the AURORAGOLD program is the London-headquartered trade group, the GSM Association, or the GSMA, which represents the interests of more than 800 major cellphone, software, and internet companies from 220 countries.

The GSMA’s members include U.S.-based companies such as Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, Microsoft, Facebook, Intel, Cisco, and Oracle, as well as large international firms including Sony, Nokia, Samsung, Ericsson, and Vodafone.

By covertly monitoring GSMA working groups in a bid to identify and exploit security vulnerabilities, the NSA has placed itself into direct conflict with the mission of the National Institute for Standards and Technology, or NIST, the U.S. government agency responsible for recommending cybersecurity standards in the United States. NIST recently handed out a grant of more than $800,000 to GSMA so that the organization could research ways to address “security and privacy challenges” faced by users of mobile devices.

The revelation that the trade group has been targeted for surveillance may reignite deep-seated tensions between NIST and NSA that came to the fore following earlier Snowden disclosures. Last year, NIST was forced to urge people not to use an encryption standard it had previously approved after it emerged NSA had apparently covertly worked to deliberately weaken it.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:09 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
This is empty gesticulation. No modern society can prevent leaks.
That's what they noticed now ... and the then bad critics by parliament and the media. So, the Federal Chancellory stopped this idea.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 08:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The parliamentary committee wanted to look at an official paper by the US-government from September 14, which could give them some details about the possible prosecution in the USA.
The Federal Justice Minister objects to handle this paper (letter) to the committee. pdf-data
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 09:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Mass surveillance exposed by Snowden ‘not justified by fight against terrorism’
Quote:
Report by Nils Muižnieks, commissioner for human rights at the Council of Europe, says ‘secret, massive and indiscriminate’ intelligence work is contrary to rule of law

The “secret, massive and indiscriminate” surveillance conducted by intelligence services and disclosed by the former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden cannot be justified by the fight against terrorism, the most senior human rights official in Europe has warned.

In a direct challenge to the United Kingdom and other states, Nils Muižnieks, the commissioner for human rights at the Council of Europe, calls for greater transparency and stronger democratic oversight of the way security agencies monitor the internet. He also said that so-called Five Eyes intelligence-sharing treaty between the UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada should be published.

“Suspicionless mass retention of communications data is fundamentally contrary to the rule of law … and ineffective,” the Latvian official argues in a 120-page report, The Rule of Law on the Internet in the Wider Digital World. “Member states should not resort to it or impose compulsory retention of data by third parties.”

As human rights commissioner, Muižnieks has the power to intervene as a third party in cases sent to the European court of human rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg. His report is published the week after the UK’s Investigatory Powers Tribunal (IPT) found that the legal regime governing mass surveillance of the internet by the monitoring agency GCHQ is “human rights compliant”.

In his report, Muižnieks wrote: “In connection with the debate on the practices of intelligence and security services prompted by Edward Snowden’s revelations, it is becoming increasingly clear that secret, massive and indiscriminate surveillance programmes are not in conformity with European human rights law and cannot be justified by the fight against terrorism or other important threats to national security. Such interferences can only be accepted if they are strictly necessary and proportionate to a legitimate aim.”
... ... ...
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 09:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
If this guy wants to commit suicide...he should do it privately...rather than suggesting everyone else do it with him.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:00 am
@Frank Apisa,
This guy, the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights, doesn't want to commit suicide but did what he was asked for and what is part of his job: writing a report as a third party in a case sent to the European court of human rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

This guy, the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights, doesn't want to commit suicide but did what he was asked for and what is part of his job: writing a report as a third party in a case sent to the European court of human rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg.


He is asking people to fight a war against terrorism...by passing laws that place us in an extreme disadvantage...and then to rigorously abide by those idiotic laws.

He IS trying to commit suicide...and he IS inviting all of us to join him.

You are welcome to do so, Walter. I respectfully decline.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
He is asking people to fight a war against terrorism...by passing laws that place us in an extreme disadvantage...and then to rigorously abide by those idiotic laws.
I've understood his report differently. But since he lived nearly all his life in the USA, got all his degrees there - your understanding will be better than mine.
Thanks!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
He IS trying to commit suicide...and he IS inviting all of us to join him.
This, however, is something I do not understand: how could his report invite "all of us" and "to join" him?
It is his report as a commissioner of the institution of 47 European countries for Court of Human Rights of these countries.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 11:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Lately I have been trying my best for my own peace of mind to follow an old piece of advice, "if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all." Needless to say, I haven't had much to say lately.

Quote:
This, however, is something I do not understand: how could his report invite "all of us" and "to join" him?


Frank is saying, (how you can't see it, I am not sure) is that with the report, if nations follow it, it would be detrimental t0 nations safety.

I am not saying I agree, just clarifying his pretty obvious point.

On the point, I think it is been determine some time ago that mass spying is not really efficient so on that basis, I think it might need to be retooled.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 11:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't know about the US, but I think Europe will survive Islamic terror... No suicide here therefore.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 11:33 am
@Olivier5,
Probably because they spy as much as the US does. I suppose you haven't been keeping up ISIS problem?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 11:56 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Probably because they spy as much as the US does. I suppose you haven't been keeping up ISIS problem?

I'm not following. How, in your opinion, would more spying have made a difference with the ISIS problem?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 12:12 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Frank is saying, (how you can't see it, I am not sure) is that with the report, if nations follow it, it would be detrimental t0 nations safety.
So ‘secret, massive and indiscriminate’ intelligence work is contrary to the rule of (European) law but detrimental to (European) nation's safety.

Well, perhaps we really all should better become a police state.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 12:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Well, perhaps we really all should better become a police state.


Yes, as hard to believe as it is there are some people who think it is needed and helpful to surrender all rights to privacy to deal with the terrorists threat.

Of course building electronic files on every citizen in the "free" world have a lot of uses for those with access to those files but it is not very useful for anti-terrorism work.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 12:51 pm
@Thomas,
Actually it didn't seem to have made a difference, however, that wasn't my point. My point to Oliver was he acted as though Europe is somehow immune to Muslim extremist terrorism.

Quote:
but I think Europe will survive Islamic terror...



I have agreed that it seems that mass data spying is not efficient, or at least doesn't seem to be.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 12:52 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I was only helping you to understand Frank's post as you seem to have been confused. I didn't say I agreed. In fact, I have said more than once that I don't think mass data spying works too well. Take ISIS taking most everyone by surprise.
 

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