42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 05:12 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The important word there is suspicion of not found to had done so.


Given that he later set out to hack into NSA files, his supervisors suspicions were probably accurate.

Quote:
An what the hell does a low tech 911 terrorist attack have to do with IT administration or Snowden letting the American people know that they are being spy on using their own tax dollars to do so?


Nothing, however, my point is that if the information had made its way down to the Hawaii NSA contractor firm, it is doubtful they would have hired him. It seems that intelligence agencies have not learned to share information after 9/11 and that is one of the mandates that they were supposed to do.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 05:15 pm
@BillRM,
Julian Assange is not in Russia, but again, my personal opinion of him is irrelevant to my views of the service he and anonymous provided.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 06:07 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
my point is that if the information had made its way down to the Hawaii NSA contractor firm, it is doubtful they would have hired him.


An Snowden would had ended up with a pile of money for being libel as you do not go by some person suspicions.

Hell if he was in fact under suspicions of misdeeds the correct thing to do would had been to watch and monitor him to see if the suspicions had any foundation.

Hell they could also had suspense his security clearance if there was any feelings that those suspicion had any foundation but he would had been entitle to a hearing.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 06:16 pm
@BillRM,
The "what if" games is ridiculous! The history of Snowden is what it was, and there are more records on him than the average joe.

What if, what if, what if......doesn't prove anything.
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 06:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The "what if" games is ridiculous!


True...............
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 07:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI as far as "what if' somehow I question that Snowden was and is the only patriot in the intelligence community and that if Snowden had not step forward someone else would had done so.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 07:09 pm
@BillRM,
Maybe, but I doubt it. It would seem they had plenty of opportunities after Snowden's revelations to support him, but no one came forward.
revelette2
 
  0  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 07:17 pm
@BillRM,
You really have trouble with reading comprehension, or are being disingenuous, I am not sure which.

Not all of the following is important to the point of this discussion, so simplify it for you, I will highlight those areas which are important. From the same article I left a link for earlier in the day.

Quote:
Whether or not whistleblower Edward Snowden's decision to reveal details of the U.S. National Security Agency's (NSA) spying on everyday Americans' digital lives was justifiable, it's undeniable that the leak has been a colossal source of embarassment and controversy for the NSA, the U.S. intelligence community, and the U.S. federal government as a whole. In that regard many at the NSA are asking themselves -- "Could we have done to stop the leak?"

I. Edward Snowden's Troubles With the CIA

Well the answer, according to a new report in The New York Times, is that they apparently could have -- and likely quite easily.

The story began in 2006 when Mr. Snowden -- regarded by coworkers as a brilliant IT mind -- was hired by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). By 2008, despite having no technical credentials, he had advanced in his new position earning a "top-secret" security clearance and being stationed at a comfortable U.S. Department of State-affiliated CIA post in Geneva. But things would soon sour between Mr. Snowden and his government employers

The report alleges that in 2009 documents in Edward Snowden's personnel file reveal that his supervisor began to notice a troubling trend in his behavior.

The NYT report states:

In 2009, his supervisor wrote a derogatory report in his personnel file, noting a distinct change in the young man’s behavior and work habits...

While it is unclear what exactly the supervisor’s negative report said, it coincides with a period of Mr. Snowden's life in 2009 when he was a prolific online commenter on government and security issues, complained about civil surveillance and, according to a friend, was suffering "a crisis of conscience."

Mr. Snowden has indicated that he began his intelligence career blissfully naive of the scope of which the government spies on Americans, regularly violating the law and agencies own official policies.

II. From "Hope to Nope"

While he did not officially support the man who would become the 44th President of the United States with his vote, he felt Barack Obama would mark a major policy shift versus President George W. Bush. In his June 2013 interview with The Guardian -- the British newspaper who Mr. Snowden primarily has leaked to -- explains:

You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realize that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.

A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor.

After seeing little shift in spying policy -- including rampant violations of American privacy rights -- in President Obama's first year of office, Mr. Snowden had completed an apparent arc from naivety to optimism to bitter cynical realism. In a separate interview with The Guardian, he recalls:

Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the world. I realized that I was part of something that was doing far more harm than good. [President Obama] advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in. I got hardened.

It appears that Mr. Snowden not only was a disgruntled government employee, he decided to take the first step in actions that could make him a whistleblower, or a criminal, according to your perspective.


Things didn't get very far though.

Reportedly his supervisor found strong evidence that he had been trying to break into systems and files that he did not have access to (top-secret security access, after all, is relatively limited as at most agencies you only have access to the data you're working directly with). Combined with his increasingly standoffish behavior, his supervisor wrote a derogatory report in his personnel file (called a "derog" in federal government jargon) and convinced CIA officials to relieve him from his post and ship him back home to the U.S.

III. CIA Records Never Reached NSA, USIS Gave Him Thumbs Up

The story might have ended there, but a determined Snowden opted to take up a series of positions working as the contractor for the NSA. Shortly after returning to the U.S. he was hired by the U.S. consumer and enterprise hardware OEM Dell. Dell sent him to a post in Japan where he was to assist as an NSA contractor.

At that point things could have been put to rest, if only the NSA were aware of Mr. Snowden's personnel record. But the CIA never passed it along directly to them.

This was not atypical; historically communication between U.S. military intelligence and U.S. intelligence, and even communications between the various branches of the U.S. Director of National Intelligence (as in this case) was dysfunctional at best.

In the wake of heavy criticism and cries for reform after 9/11, it appears that Mr. Snowden's "derog" was filed as a lower level discipline document, as his supervisor warning -- based on telltale digital clues and a gut feeling -- lacked definitive proof that he had actually committed major rule-based infractions. And while USIS -- the private Idylwood, Virginia-based security contractor who evaluated 700,000 checks of potential hires last year -- may have had access to the report, it didn't bother to raise any red flags with the NSA.


I doubt very seriously Snowden would have won a libel suit had he filed one after having been relieved of his position which is probably why he didn't file a suit of libel.

There was a lower level discipline document filed against Snowden which caused him to be relieved of his position. If his supervisor had actual proof, it would have been a more serious discipline report. If NSA had been aware of the "derog" report, it is doubtful Snowden would have been hired.

Like ya'll said, it is a lot of "ifs." I'm more than ready to drop it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 07:48 pm
@revelette2,
Your use of the green printing is very difficult to read.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, I realized that, but didn't want to go back and redo it. The original is on the two pages up, doubt anyone is that interested anyway.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It would seem they had plenty of opportunities after Snowden's revelations to support him, but no one came forward.


There was no need to have more then one person making that kind of sacrifice in order to notify the American public of what was occurring in secret.

Snowden was the first to step forward.
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:42 pm
@revelette2,
An you will believe anything that come out of the intelligence community however a similar kind of "leaks" was done attacking the good names of the whistle blowers who reveal the phony weapons of mass destruction nonsense.

It standard to attack the good names of whistle blowers.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:44 pm
@BillRM,
I would think on very important issues such as the NRA programs being illegal, more people would step up to the plate. It's about how much value there is to any issue. Why do thousands of young men volunteer into the military to "fight for our country?" Why did the people of Hong Kong demonstrate by the thousands for democracy? Why did the Chinese students gather in Tiananmen Square to demonstrate for a more democratic government?

Demonstration by the masses always has much more impact than one person.
That's been my observation about the world of politics.
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Demonstration by the masses always has much more impact than one person.
That's been my observation about the world of politics.


Once the information was out there it was out there and for myself I would prefer others "Snowden" to remain in place so future misdeeds can be reveal as needed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 08:58 pm
@BillRM,
And the 64 thousand dollar question is 'will they?' Many are afraid to lose their jobs, and become a public target pro and con.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 11:18 pm
revelette2 wrote:

I'm confused, probably been on here too long today, what second source?
The one mentioned in the raw version of the documentary film and not shown in the final version. It's obviously the same, which had been speculated about earlier. And people here speculate that this is the source for Merkel's phone hacking knowledge. (I wrote about that earlier.)
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 14 Oct, 2014 03:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
From my understandings there is already indications that not all the current information is coming from Snowden documents and the TOR project people are claiming that detail and expert help is being given to them by parties unknown.

Those tor project experts are of the opinion that the likely sources is from government experts.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 14 Oct, 2014 09:49 am
@BillRM,
Thanks for sharing that info; I didn't know about it because I haven't seen in (reliable) media report on them.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 16 Oct, 2014 10:00 am
Not really related to Snowdon, but since this topec has been mentioned a few times here ..

Fide sed cui vide the old Romans already said: trust, but be carful of whom you trust.

Revealed: how Whisper app tracks ‘anonymous’ users

Quote:
Some Whisper users monitored even after opting out of geolocation services
Company shares some information with US Department of Defense
User data collated and indefinitely stored in searchable database
Whisper app rewrites terms of service and privacy policy
How the ‘safest place on the internet’ tracks its users
... ... ... ... ... ...
http://i58.tinypic.com/3010arm.jpg
... ... ... ... ... ...
revelette2
 
  1  
Thu 16 Oct, 2014 11:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I have never heard of this company, but I am sure others have. It was a little dishonest in them, actually, it was just plain dishonest as opposed to a little dishonest.
0 Replies
 
 

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