42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 11:49 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

From what I understand, first he worked as a security guard at NSA, then somehow, got a job at as an information technologist at the CIA. All in all, I don't think any of it really is a senior position at NSA.
I don't think that he wrote in that above linked email, he was in " a senior position at NSA".

(In 2006 - 2008, he was employed by the CIA - with diplomatic status, when in Geneva.)
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 11:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Correct, I misspoke. Nevertheless, I doubt the CIA or NSA would have considered him a senior at either place. I mean, all his positions seem to be relatively brief. An information technologist is not exactly a high level position in the CIA is it?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 12:25 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Correct, I misspoke. Nevertheless, I doubt the CIA or NSA would have considered him a senior at either place. I mean, all his positions seem to be relatively brief. An information technologist is not exactly a high level position in the CIA is it?


Actually, I guess a janitor working on the top floor of a building can truthfully claim to be in a high level position.

Just sayin'.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 12:33 pm
Well, speaking of the CIA job in Geneva, turns out to be kind of a story in itself. It turns out he was relieved of his position because his supervisors suspected him of hacking files.

Quote:
NSA ignored accusatory report in personnel file

Whether or not whistleblower Edward Snowden's decision to reveal details of the U.S. National Security Agency's (NSA) spying on everyday Americans' digital lives was justifiable, it's undeniable that the leak has been a colossal source of embarassment and controversy for the NSA, the U.S. intelligence community, and the U.S. federal government as a whole. In that regard many at the NSA are asking themselves -- "Could we have done to stop the leak?"

I. Edward Snowden's Troubles With the CIA

Well the answer, according to a new report in The New York Times, is that they apparently could have -- and likely quite easily.

The story began in 2006 when Mr. Snowden -- regarded by coworkers as a brilliant IT mind -- was hired by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). By 2008, despite having no technical credentials, he had advanced in his new position earning a "top-secret" security clearance and being stationed at a comfortable U.S. Department of State-affiliated CIA post in Geneva. But things would soon sour between Mr. Snowden and his government employers

The report alleges that in 2009 documents in Edward Snowden's personnel file reveal that his supervisor began to notice a troubling trend in his behavior.

The NYT report states:

n 2009, his supervisor wrote a derogatory report in his personnel file, noting a distinct change in the young man’s behavior and work habits...

While it is unclear what exactly the supervisor’s negative report said, it coincides with a period of Mr. Snowden's life in 2009 when he was a prolific online commenter on government and security issues, complained about civil surveillance and, according to a friend, was suffering "a crisis of conscience."

Mr. Snowden has indicated that he began his intelligence career blissfully naive of the scope of which the government spies on Americans, regularly violating the law and agencies own official policies.

II. From "Hope to Nope"

While he did not officially support the man who would become the 44th President of the United States with his vote, he felt Barack Obama would mark a major policy shift versus President George W. Bush. In his June 2013 interview with The Guardian -- the British newspaper who Mr. Snowden primarily has leaked to -- explains:

You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realize that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.

A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor.

After seeing little shift in spying policy -- including rampant violations of American privacy rights -- in President Obama's first year of office, Mr. Snowden had completed an apparent arc from naivety to optimism to bitter cynical realism. In a separate interview with The Guardian, he recalls:

Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the world. I realized that I was part of something that was doing far more harm than good. [President Obama] advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in. I got hardened.

It appears that Mr. Snowden not only was a disgruntled government employee, he decided to take the first step in actions that could make him a whistleblower, or a criminal, according to your perspective.

Things didn't get very far though.

Reportedly his supervisor found strong evidence that he had been trying to break into systems and files that he did not have access to (top-secret security access, after all, is relatively limited as at most agencies you only have access to the data you're working directly with). Combined with his increasingly standoffish behavior, his supervisor wrote a derogatory report in his personnel file (called a "derog" in federal government jargon) and convinced CIA officials to relieve him from his post and ship him back home to the U.S.

III. CIA Records Never Reached NSA, USIS Gave Him Thumbs Up

The story might have ended there, but a determined Snowden opted to take up a series of positions working as the contractor for the NSA. Shortly after returning to the U.S. he was hired by the U.S. consumer and enterprise hardware OEM Dell. Dell sent him to a post in Japan where he was to assist as an NSA contractor.

At that point things could have been put to rest, if only the NSA were aware of Mr. Snowden's personnel record. But the CIA never passed it along directly to them.

This was not atypical; historically communication between U.S. military intelligence and U.S. intelligence, and even communications between the various branches of the U.S. Director of National Intelligence (as in this case) was dysfunctional at best.

In the wake of heavy criticism and cries for reform after 9/11, it appears that Mr. Snowden's "derog" was filed as a lower level discipline document, as his supervisor warning -- based on telltale digital clues and a gut feeling -- lacked definitive proof that he had actually committed major rule-based infractions. And while USIS -- the private Idylwood, Virginia-based security contractor who evaluated 700,000 checks of potential hires last year -- may have had access to the report, it didn't bother to raise any red flags with the NSA.

While he would never work directly for the NSA, he would go on to spend the next three years working at NSA locations as a contractor, first for Dell in Japan, then at Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Comp., Ltd. (BAH) at an NSA facility in Hawaii. Applying the lessons learned at the CIA, coupled with security flaws, allowed Mr. Snowden to get a surprising broad level of access over what appeared to be many of the NSA's most sensitive files and reports -- precisely the kind of actions his former CIA supervisor had suspected and warned of in his personnel file.

Previous reports that emerged in June reveal that Booz Allen Hamilton and the U.S. may have overlooked discrepancies (basically lies) on Mr. Snowden's resume, when they hired him earlier this year. Specifically, he claimed to be about to receive a Master's Degree in computer security from a Tokyo-based program operated by University of Maryland, the UK University of Liverpool, and the Johns Hopkins University.

The claims might seem incredible, given Mr. Snowden only had a GED at the time, but because of his brilliance, his supervisors bought the claim. Later investigations made his claims seem a stretch at best, although the Univ. of Maryland did confirm that he attend some classes in-person at an Asian campus last year.

IV. Congress Scrutinizes Lack of Sharing, USIS

Congress has reportedly been discussing the report in closed door sessions about the whistleblowing/security breach. While's its perhaps unsurprising that a federal government obsessed with secrecy and spying on its own voting base would be a bit habitually lacking on transparency and sharing -- even between its own agencies -- this latest headache has built some momentum for change.

An unnamed Republican lawmaker told The NYT, "The weakness of the system was if derogatory information came in, he could still keep his security clearance and move to another job, and the information wasn’t passed on."

Kathy Pherson, a former CIA officer, who's now on a new government task force told The NYT, "We have a compelling need to monitor those trusted with this sensitive information on a more regular basis and with broader sets of data."

Mavanee Anderson -- a fellow former high security clearance CIA technical analyst who worked with and knew Mr. Snowden during his time in Geneva, comments, "[He was] experiencing a crisis of conscience of sorts. Anyone smart enough to be involved in the type of work he does, who is privy to the type of information to which he was privy, will have at least moments like these."

Many -- including some members of Congress -- have expressed support for Mr. Snowden, calling him a whistleblower, arguing he exposed abusive, secret programs that siphoned taxpayer dollars to contractors like Dell, BAH, and Oracle Corp. (ORCL) -- many of whom were top donors to President Bush and President Obama. A group of former CIA officials went as far as to travel to Russia to present Mr. Snowden with a special award for his actions.

However, the intelligence community steadfastly stands by their labelling of Mr. Snowden as a criminal "traitor". Mr. Snowden currently faces multiple criminal charges for his actions, but has thus far escaped prosecution, as he fled the country prior to outing himself as a source of the leaks. Mr. Snowden has since travelled to Russia, gaining asylum there, much to President Obama's chagrin.

The contractor that vetted Mr. Snowden -- USIS -- has come under fire after it was revealed to have also vetted the D.C. Navy Shipyard shooter, Aaron Alexis. The private contractor, which holds 100 major federal contracts with 95 federal agencies and subagencies is currently under investigation, according to reports, but similar past probes of contractors like Oracle and Computer Sciences Corp. (CSC) have at worst typically led to a slap on the wrist monetarily.

Source: The New York Times



source
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 01:14 pm
@revelette2,
Without reading the article you provided, I'm glad that Snowden was able to obtain information about NSA's crimes. That's where we differ in your absolutes about SCOTUS has not determined it's a crime, and what our government does are done by all governments. SCOTUS is wrong, and it's a crime against our Constitution on our rights to privacy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
From NYT.com.
Quote:
The two programs violate both the letter and the spirit of federal law. No statute explicitly authorizes mass surveillance.


BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 01:34 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
which he somehow parlayed into an information-technology job at the Central Intelligence Agency.


He somehow land a job with no skills or abilities to do so is being imply and that is complete nonsense on it face.

Quote:
work for private contractors, among them Dell and Booz Allen Hamilton, a tech consulting firm


Not only did the CIA for some very strange reason hired a "security guard" in a high technology position then private and very high tech firms did likewise.

footnote Bill Gate drop out of college and never got his undergraduate degree and one of the two founders of Apple Steve Wozniak did not get his undergraduate degree until he was already a multmillionaire and so famous that he needed to attend school under an assume name to get his engineering degree.

The billion dollar private company I spend my career with had the founder that did remarkable engineering with no degree that created this billion dollar company.

Sorry the nonsense you are posting is nothing but unfounded personal attack.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 01:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Without reading the article you provided, I'm glad that Snowden was able to obtain information about NSA's crimes. That's where we differ in your absolutes about SCOTUS has not determined it's a crime, and what our government does are done by all governments. SCOTUS is wrong, and it's a crime against our Constitution on our rights to privacy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
From NYT.com.
Quote:
The two programs violate both the letter and the spirit of federal law. No statute explicitly authorizes mass surveillance.





Once again, ci...you are suggesting that YOU are the determinant of whether or not the NSA has committed "crimes"...and, incredibly, ruling out the impact of rulings (or no rulings) of the SCOTUS.

YOU do not have that right.

You do have the right to express an opinion...but to assert that your opinion is correct and that the role of the SCOTUS should be disregarded in any way...is an absurdity.

You are not qualified to determine if the NSA programs violate "both the letter and spirit of the law." That is a function given to the judiciary BY THE CONSTITUTION you say you are defending.

You should be deferring to the Constitution on this matter.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 01:54 pm
Quote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

Edward Joseph "Ed" Snowden (born June 21, 1983) is an American computer professional who leaked classified information from the National Security Agency (NSA), starting in June 2013. A former system administrator for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and a counterintelligence trainer at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), he later worked for the private intelligence contractor Dell inside an NSA outpost in Japan. In March 2013, he joined the consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton inside the NSA center in Hawaii.

In the early 1990s, while still in grade school, Snowden moved with his family to Maryland.[43] Mononucleosis caused him to miss high school for almost nine months.[40] Rather than return, he passed the GED test[44] and enrolled in Anne Arundel Community College.[38] Although Snowden had no Bachelor's degree,[45] ABC News reported that he worked online toward a Master's degree at the University of Liverpool in 2011.[46] In 2010, while visiting India on official business at the U.S. embassy,[47] Snowden trained for six days in core Java programming and advanced ethical hacking.[48] Snowden was reportedly interested in Japanese popular culture, had studied the Japanese language,[49] and worked for an anime company domiciled in the U.S.[50][51] He also said he had a basic understanding of Mandarin Chinese and was deeply interested in martial arts; at age 20, he listed Buddhism as his religion on a military recruitment form, noting that the choice of agnostic was "strangely absent."[52] Snowden told The Washington Post that he was an ascetic, rarely left the house and had few needs.[53] He is reportedly vegetarian[1] but does eat pepperoni pizza.[40]

Before leaving for Hong Kong, Snowden resided in Waipahu, Hawaii, with his longtime girlfriend, Lindsay Mills.[54] According
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:04 pm
@BillRM,
Sounds like an accomplished individual to me - with some smarts.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agree, he is accomplished with some smarts. Who said he wasn't? I watch ID on satellite television a lot, there is a series called "IMPOSTER." A lot of con men are able to fool elite companies, on one episode, a man went through his whole life fooling people, including Sanford University.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:25 pm
@revelette2,
There are all variations of what's possible in human characteristics and analysis.

If you agree with my opinion that Snowden has smarts, there was no need for you to confirm it. You could have commented if you disagreed. It's otherwise a non-issue.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So now it is somehow wrong to agree with someone? Who knew?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:36 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
"IMPOSTER." A lot of con men are able to fool elite companies, on one episode, a man went through his whole life fooling people, including Sanford University.


Nonsense and I mean nonsense and this is coming from someone who would from time to time do hiring interviews of the people that human resources would send us to look at.

It did not take long to find out with or without a degree if the person in front of you knew the needed subjects and have the skill needed to meet the requirements and no amount of intellect or charm would cover up a lack of knowledge needed for the position being interview for.

Snowden fool no one he was hired for positions that he was able to do.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:42 pm
@BillRM,
He was able to do the job he was hired for and do it well. Apparently the people who hired him was impressed with him despite his having no technical credentials. He did, however, lie on at least one resume as I posted earlier, so apparently he is not above stretching the truth when it suits him or for that matter hacking and stealing government property and getting other people in trouble and causing them to loose their jobs.

I've spent more time on this today than even I want to, it just disgust me that so many just simply take at face value everything that flows out of his mouth.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 02:48 pm
@revelette2,
Can you refresh my memory on what he lied about on his resume?
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 03:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, I to would love to hear what he lied about with very special note of what he could have gotten away with lying to the CIA about.

As I said this is all complete nonsense on it face
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 03:10 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Well, speaking of the CIA job in Geneva, turns out to be kind of a story in itself.
Indeed. It's the main reason while Switzerland would grant asylum.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 03:11 pm
@BillRM,
It was not the CIA.

Quote:
Previous reports that emerged in June reveal that Booz Allen Hamilton and the U.S. may have overlooked discrepancies (basically lies) on Mr. Snowden's resume, when they hired him earlier this year. Specifically, he claimed to be about to receive a Master's Degree in computer security from a Tokyo-based program operated by University of Maryland, the UK University of Liverpool, and the Johns Hopkins University.

The claims might seem incredible, given Mr. Snowden only had a GED at the time, but because of his brilliance, his supervisors bought the claim. Later investigations made his claims seem a stretch at best, although the Univ. of Maryland did confirm that he attend some classes in-person at an Asian campus last year.


From the previous link.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 03:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Low position or not, neither was a topic in those emails. And certainly not that they became part of the documentary film or the printed report.

The second source, about that is speculated here in Germany and elsewhere, is said to be a "real" senior officer.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2014 03:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Indeed. It's the main reason while Switzerland would grant asylum.


Switzerland was going to grant Snowden asylum because his supervisor (CIA) had suspicions Snowden was hacking into their files he had no access to? This was in 2009.
0 Replies
 
 

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