41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 05:02 am
Merkel pitches economy, faces questions about NSA scandal
Quote:
Germany's chancellor has used a major press conference to respond to reporters' questions about what her government knows about US spying activities in Germany.
[...]
However, as soon as the floor was opened up for questions from reporters, many of them focused on revelations about US surveillance activities in Europe made recently by former National Security Agency (NSA) subcontractor Edward Snowden.

Merkel told reporters that she simply could not answer all of their questions about the NSA surveillance program known as “Prism.”

"It is impossible for me to provide an analysis of Prism here," the chancellor said, adding that the process of gathering information was ongoing.

At the same time, though, she reiterated her demand that any American agencies operating in Germany do so in compliance with the laws of the land.

"On German territory, German law must be complied with," the chancellor said. She also noted that Germany was not a "surveillance state," saying. "Germany is a land of freedom."

The chancellor also conceded that because any friendship is based upon trust, the revelations of mass surveillance by the NSA had affected the relationship between Germany and one of its most important allies. At the same time though, she expressed optimism that the two countries would overcome the issue.

"If it is a good friendship, then it will survive a difficult situation," she said. At the same time though, she stressed that her government was expecting more information from the US about the spying allegations.

"Sweeping things under the carpet would do more damage than calling things by name," she said.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 05:40 am
@engineer,
Quote:
Does anyone else see a viable option besides those three?

Errrr... Repell the mass surveillance programmes because they are unconstitutional and damage ties with allies?

I dream too much, I know....
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 05:42 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
So what do we do about Snowden? At this point he has a) not revealed anything that puts US agents in harm's way b) carefully screened his releases, c) embarrased the daylights out of the US government and d) lit a small fire under the US journalism community. If the US continues to hound him, it looks like he is in a position to do significant damage with far more detailed releases.

It seems to me that there are three options for the US government to take. It could continue to hound him to the far ends of the Earth, calling his bluff on the much greater information release, it could back off and allow someplace to grant him asylum or it could grant him pardon for past acts but make clear any further releases would result in option A: pursue to the ends of the Earth. Does anyone else see a viable option besides those three?

Option 1 (in my opinion): Hound him to the ends of the earth, but make it known that so far he has only earned 30 years in supermax. Make it known that if he releases damaging information he gets the death penalty.

Option 2 (in my opinion): Let him go have asylum wherever. Once he feels safe in his new home, DroneStrike him (thermobaric charges). Bonus points for causing collateral damage within the asylum-giving country.

I don't agree that the US government is particularly embarrassed.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 05:46 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
engineer wrote:
Does anyone else see a viable option besides those three?

Errrr... Repell the mass surveillance programmes because they are unconstitutional and damage ties with allies?
I dream too much, I know....

But they aren't unconstitutional, and they don't damage ties with allies.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 06:30 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

But they aren't unconstitutional, and they don't damage ties with allies.
We don't have the US-constitution here.
Perhaps it doesn't damage ties with us allies .... now.
But it definitely enlarges the anti-US-camp ... now, and in future.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 06:39 am
The already mentioned "NSA Protection League" will make a walk to the "Dagger Complex" again ... this time with a lot more people joining .... and more journalists and police ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Journalist Glenn Greenwald says new reports from the trove of NSA data supplied by whistleblower Edward Snowden can be expected in the next few days. Speaking on a German talkshow, he said they would be even "more explosive in Germany" than previous reporting.

From the report: Greenwald: 'Explosive' NSA Spying Reports Are Imminent
Quote:
Are new revelations from the NSA data trove going to drop in the next few days? Speaking on a political talk show on German public broadcaster ARD on Thursday night, Glenn Greenwald said he expected stories to appear in the coming days that would be even "more explosive" in Germany than reports previously published about cooperation between the National Security Agency and German intelligence authorities.

Greenwald is the journalist who broke the original story about former NSA contractor and whistleblower Edward Snowden's data trove, revealing how the intelligence agency taps tech giants' user data to facilitate its mass-scale surveillance. Since then, additional reporting on the documents by SPIEGEL has exposed how the American intelligence agency spies on both the European Union and a half-billion communications connections in Germany each month. The reports sparked a massive political debate in Germany over how much the German government knew about the spying -- an egregious violation of the country's privacy laws -- and whether it was actively cooperating with the Americans.
He told host Reinhold Beckmann that he and journalist Laura Poitras had obtained full sets of the documents during a trip to Hong Kong, with around 9,000 to 10,000 top secret documents in total. Greenwald said they had been in possession of the data for around seven weeks and had not had a chance to analyze all the material, noting that some of the documents were extremely complicated. "We're working on it," he said.

Greenwald Carries Data with Him

Asked by the host about his own security, Greenwald said he felt "threatened in the sense that there are very prominent American politicians and even American journalists who have called for my arrest, who have called me a criminal." He added, "There's a very robust CIA presence where I work, in Rio de Janeiro," and when you have very secret documents from the world's most powerful government, "you definitely think about your security." He told Beckmann he carries the data with him at all times, but also that other copies have been stored on the Internet.

Greenwald said he maintains regular contact with Snowden using encrypted chat technologies. Snowden, he said, "knew that the choice he was making" when he leaked the data "would submit him to serious risks and would make him the most wanted man in the world." Still, he said Snowden is convinced "it was the right choice." Snowden is currently in the transit area of Moscow's international airport awaiting a decision on his application for temporary asylum in Russia.

Describing German intelligence cooperation with the NSA, he said that Germany wasn't partnering at the same level as Britain, Australia, Canada or New Zealand, but that it was "sort of in the next tier where they exchange information all the time."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 08:07 am
@ossobuco,
You're right chuck, sometimes I just can't help myself.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 09:25 am
@ossobuco,
This was how abuzz died. More and more vitrolic till nobody wanted to be on it.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 09:29 am
@Olivier5,
All of them or just the U S of A ones.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 09:34 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Option 2 (in my opinion): Let him go have asylum wherever. Once he feels safe in his new home, DroneStrike him (thermobaric charges). Bonus points for causing collateral damage within the asylum-giving country.


You do know that he had set up dead man switches to released all the information that he had yet to released if something happen to him?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 09:37 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

All of them or just the U S of A ones.
The British Tempora was the other program mentioned by Snowden.
Might be that some documents will be published about it later (might well be, I think). And it might well be that it could be unconstitutional as well.

But until now, it's just one from the USA, namely Prism, about which Snowden's documents were published.


I'd thought that I follow the Guardian and the Spiegel pretty well on this subject - must have missed the others
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 09:40 am
As you can all see most people cant tell the difference between a whistleblower and a traitor. If I were Snowden I wouldent come back unless I had an ironclad agreement of no prosecution.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 10:07 am
@RABEL222,
Whistleblowing is a rather new area of law.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 10:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It seems many high tech companies in the US are now requesting approval to release the information that the NSA requested/demanded from them.

This is another case in point that I distrust Obama to do the right thing.

Since congress is now involved, I'm sure heads will roll, and this kind of intrusion into private lives will stop. The so-called authority for FISA will expire next year.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
This is another case in point that I distrust Obama to do the right thing.


As far as doing the right thing goes, Obama will have the opportunity very soon. Putin has proven he's a dictator by locking up political opponent Alexei Navalny on trumped up charges, although he's currently out on bail. Russian commentators have called for a boycott of the Winter Olympics on these grounds

I'm sure Putin would hand Snowden over if Obama speaks publicly about what a great leader Putin is, and fails to mention Navalny.

Let's see what happens.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:15 am
@oralloy,
A country like the US, rogue state that it is, guilty of so many war crimes and ongoing acts of terrorism, has only the options that a gang of criminals has, the options of the Mafia. And, again, rogue nation that it is, they have certainly used the Mafia option before.

That you would suggest such an option, Oralboy, speaks to just how amoral a "person" you are.

The US harbors war criminals and terrorists. It must really tick off a piece of excrement like you to see an honorable and patriotic American like Edward Snowden describe US crimes.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:19 am
@izzythepush,
From Huff Post (and why Obama can't be trusted to do the right thing).
Quote:
NDAA Signed Into Law By Obama Despite Guantanamo Veto Threat, Indefinite Detention Provisions
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 11:34 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
(and why Obama can't be trusted to do the right thing).


But there you are, front and center, defending the crooks. You really are one terribly confused little puppy, CI, one doddering old fool.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 01:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I hate the fact that everyone thinks that it is completely wrong for government to gather personal information on people but think its perfectly ok for big business, banks and computer spy organizations to gather all the information they want to without my permission. Big business started this crap.
 

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