39
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 01:57 pm
@RABEL222,
All those that are unconstitutional, I should think... You guys are welcome to change your constitution so that it says the state can collect whatever information from whoever without a warrant, if that's where you want to go.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 02:14 pm
@RABEL222,
I don't think that's wrong for a government to get personal information on its citizens - that's the reason, why registry office are there, licence department, electoral offices etc etc.

I don'tthink that they have the right to whom I'm writing a written letter, to whom I phone, who gets my emails ... And especially, I don't think that an US-agency has the right to such here, in a foreign country.

Big businesses - well, legally, they only collect what I've allowed them to collect. They may know more. But perhaps even less than some neighbours.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 03:22 pm
I don't suppose anyone's asked Robert if he's passing on a2k user info to the NSA. Actually, now that I think about it - where does he get those hamsters from?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 03:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"Hayden's smear came in a column in which he argues that Edward Snowden, whose story Greenwald has been telling in the Guardian, "will likely prove to be the most costly leaker of American secrets in the history of the Republic." "

And any sane person should celebrate that and hope and pray that that indeed comes to pass. What kind of person would want to defend these criminals?

That, of course, leaves out such people as Frank Apisa, CI - sometimes, as he wildly vacillates, MiT, Joefrom(who has to support the criminals or he can kiss his career bye bye)Chicago, ... .


Quote:
Former NSA Chief Smears Glenn Greenwald
By Steve Rendall

"The Guardian newspaper's Glenn Greenwald," writes former NSA director Michael Hayden today in a CNN op-ed, is "more deserving of the Justice Department's characterization of a co-conspirator than Fox's James Rosen ever was." Hayden's smear came in a column in which he argues that Edward Snowden, whose story Greenwald has been telling in the Guardian, "will likely prove to be the most costly leaker of American secrets in the history of the Republic."

Those thuggish words are particularly disturbing coming from a figure who is, as CNN's editor's note at the top of the column explains, still tied to military and intelligence elites.

When powerful bullies like Hayden attempt to smear or criminalize journalists, it should stir anger, particularly among journalists. Though it should come as little surprise that an official who launched warrantless surveillance programs–in spite of the Fourth Amendment protections against them–also has a tenuous grasp on the First Amendment.

Hayden's sordid attack on Greenwald is just the latest in a string of NSA smears and lies emitting from current and former government officials. After the Snowden story broke in early June, and the official wagons began circling, I noted how officials including U.S. senators, the current NSA chief, the Director of National Intelligence, and the White House itself, were spreading falsehoods about NSA surveillance programs and their successes. With a couple of noted exceptions, those falsehood went unchallenged by journalists.

As this latest propaganda in the campaign to burnish the NSA's reputation and tarnish those of its critics comes at the expense of a reporter, it might be a good time for journalists to ask hard questions about the smear artists, liars and constitutional scofflaws in charge of surveillance programs. Or as veteran journalist and media watcher Dan Froomkin tweeted about Hayden's attack on Greenwald: "Surprise: The people we're supposed to blindly trust with absolute surveillance power engage in in smears & innuendo."

Speaking for himself, Glenn Greenwald responded to Hayden's smear this way:

"I've long thought Michael Hayden belongs in prison for implementing illegal warrantless eavesdropping at Americans"

http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/07/19/former-nsa-chief-smears-glenn-greenwald/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=former-nsa-chief-smears-glenn-greenwald

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2013 07:00 pm
See:

http://able2know.org/topic/218544-1

http://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#axzz2Z6qwaWFR

The Strange Case of Barrett Brown
Amid the outrage over the NSA's spying program, the jailing of journalist Barrett Brown points to a deeper and very troubling problem.

Peter Ludlow June 18, 2013

...

In November 2010, Hunton and Williams organized a number of private intelligence, technology development and security contractors—HBGary, plus Palantir Technologies, Berico Technologies and, according to Brown, a secretive corporation with the ominous name Endgame Systems—to form “Team Themis”—‘themis’ being a Greek word meaning “divine law.” Its main objective was to discredit critics of the Chamber of Commerce, like Chamber Watch, using such tactics as creating a “false document, perhaps highlighting periodical financial information,” giving it to a progressive group opposing the Chamber, and then subsequently exposing the document as a fake to “prove that US Chamber Watch cannot be trusted with information and/or tell the truth.” In addition, the group proposed creating a “fake insider persona” to infiltrate Chamber Watch. They would “create two fake insider personas, using one as leverage to discredit the other while confirming the legitimacy of the second.” The leaked e-mails showed that similar disinformation campaigns were being planned against WikiLeaks and Glenn Greenwald.

It was clear to Brown that these were actions of questionable legality, but beyond that, government contractors were attempting to undermine Americans’ free speech—with the apparent blessing of the DOJ. A group of Democratic congressmen asked for an investigation into this arrangement, to no avail.

By June 2011, the plot had thickened further. The FBI had the goods on the leader of LulzSec, one Hector Xavier Monsegur, who went under the nom de guerre Sabu. The FBI arrested him on June 7, 2011, and (according to court documents) turned him into an informant the following day. Just three days before his arrest, Sabu had been central to the formation of a new group called AntiSec, which comprised his former LulzSec crew members, as well as members as Anonymous. In early December AntiSec hacked the website of a private security company called Stratfor Global Intelligence. On Christmas Eve, it released a trove of some 5 million internal company e-mails. AntiSec member and Chicago activist Jeremy Hammond has pled guilty to the attack and is currently facing ten years in prison for it.

The contents of the Stratfor leak were even more outrageous than those of the HBGary hack. They included discussion of opportunities for renditions and assassinations. For example, in one video, Statfor’s vice president of intelligence, Fred Burton, suggested taking advantage of the chaos in Libya to render Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, who had been released from prison on compassionate grounds due to his terminal illness. Burton said that the case “was personal.” When someone pointed out in an e-mail that such a move would almost certainly be illegal—“This man has already been tried, found guilty, sentenced…and served time”—another Stratfor employee responded that this was just an argument for a more efficient solution: “One more reason to just bugzap him with a hellfire. :-)”
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 10:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The British Tempora was the other program mentioned by Snowden.
Might be that some documents will be published about it later (might well be, I think). And it might well be that it could be unconstitutional as well.

None of these programs are unconstitutional.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 10:41 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
All those that are unconstitutional, I should think... You guys are welcome to change your constitution so that it says the state can collect whatever information from whoever without a warrant, if that's where you want to go.

The programs are already fully in compliance with the Constitution. No change is needed.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 11:43 am
@oralloy,
I don#t think that you are a specialised expert in German constitutional law.
Actually, you even don't have even basic knowledge about it.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 12:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I don#t think that you are a specialised expert in German constitutional law.
Actually, you even don't have even basic knowledge about it.

Given your history of making false accusations and then scurrying away without trying to justify them, and your history of making untrue claims about European law, your assessments of me have no credibility.

That said, I was referring to the US Constitution. Constitutions of other nations have no relevance to US programs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 12:28 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

That said, I was referring to the US Constitution. Constitutions of other nations have no relevance to US programs.
I wasn't talking at all about the US-Constitution since we have an own one and whatever you think: we are not an US-colony. And what the US does here in Germany has to follow German laws, including our constitution.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  6  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 12:31 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Constitutions of other nations have no relevance to US programs.


they absolutely do have a relevance when U.S. programs are running in other countries.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 02:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI, I'd like you opinion on this open letter to Edward Snowdon published in The Nation, which is the oldest weekly magazine in the US.

particularly this part (but the entire thing is fascinating, imo).

Quote:
They say you, like Bradley Manning, gave secrets to their enemies. It’s clear who those enemies are: you, me, us. It was clear on September 12, 2001, that the Bush administration feared the American people more than al-Qaeda. Not much has changed on that front since, and this almost infinitely broad information harvest criminalizes all of us. This metadata—the patterns and connections of communications rather than their content—is particularly useful, as my friend Chris Carlsson pointed out, at mapping the clusters of communications behind popular movements, uprisings, political organizing: in other words, those moments when civil society rises to shape history, to make a better future in the open world of the streets and squares.

The goal of gathering all this metadata, Chris speculates, "is to be able to identify where the ‘hubs’ are, who the people are who sit at key points in networks, helping pass news and messages along, but especially, who the people are who spread ideas and information from one network of people to the next, who help connect small networks into larger ones, and thus facilitate the unpredictable and rapid spread of dissent when it appears.”

Metadata can map the circulatory system of civil society, toward what ends you can certainly imagine. When governments fear their people you can be sure they are not serving their people. This has always been the minefield of patriotism: loyalty to our government often means hostility to our country and vice-versa. Edward Snowden, loyalist to country, you have made this clear as day.



Read more: A Letter to Edward Snowden | The Nation http://www.thenation.com/article/175339/letter-edward-snowden#ixzz2ZcNba38a
Follow us: @thenation on Twitter | TheNationMagazine on Facebook
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 02:01 pm
As a side note:
Quote:
A divided three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals Fourth Circuit handed down the ruling that Risen will have to testify in the case of Jeffrey Alexander Sterling, who allegedly gave Risen classified information about efforts to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
[...] The appeals court panel ruled that the First Amendment does not provide a shield from testimony about leaks of classified information. ... ... ...
Full report
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 03:18 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Constitutions of other nations have no relevance to US programs.


That's certainly an apt description of how rogue nations work, Oralloy.

Quote:
Given your history of making false accusations and then scurrying away without trying to justify them,


You guys just don't have the foggiest notion when it comes to hypocrisy. So many of y'all can do this in the course of two sentences without missing a heartbeat.

Congenital liars or the steady drumming of propaganda. Could also be the lack of morals, the native dishonesty, ... .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 03:21 pm
@JPB,
Here's my opinion in a nutshell; what our government is doing is wrong. As wrong as our wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It's simply illegal and unwarranted.

Unless they can show us transparency of what they're doing, it's probably wrong.

They're guilty of doing too many things behind closed doors.

I'm critical about Obama on many things; this is one of them.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 03:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
As wrong as our wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. It's simply illegal and unwarranted.


Then should the guilty parties be tried in a war crimes trail similar to Nuremberg or Tokyo?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 04:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Or US of A law either.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 04:17 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
they absolutely do have a relevance when U.S. programs are running in other countries.

I disagree.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2013 10:24 pm
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoeller

=================

The USA, marching inexorably towards fascism.

Maybe they'll build a death camp in your state, Oralboy, and you can get a job doing whatever .
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 21 Jul, 2013 12:06 am
Quote:
Intelligence agencies in Germany and the US have been collaborating, according to a new report from a German magazine. The German government has been using bulk data collected by the National Security Agency.
Source

That's why they are so 'silent'.
 

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