Snowdon is a dummy

@revelette2,

An American spy caught spying may be charged and end up doing jail time, but of course, one cannot sue an entire nation in a criminal court.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Comparing what we are discussing with rape...is so far beyond the pale...

I don't think so. My privacy gets invaded, even though I totally disagree with it. The important point is that mass spying is not benign. It is a crime. You guys have been playing it down as unimportant, but that's like somebody who gets raped everyday and pretends to not mind it. You are just using Vaseline and carrying on because there's nothing you can do to protect your privacy.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

So true; just because they don't value their privacy doesn't mean many of us don't. We are guaranteed privacy based on our Constitution. They can ignore that all they wish, but that's supposed to be the law of the land. Their inability to understand the importance of privacy just proves how ignorant some people are. We don't want a police state, and intruding into our privacy is just the beginning.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

, but of course, one cannot sue an entire nation in a criminal court.

It been done in civil court not criminal court and the case that come into my mind in that regard is of a woman suing the Cuban government for having one of their intelligence agent marrying her, in bad faith, as part of his cover while in the US spying.

She got a judgment and every time a bit of Cuban government property come into the US such as a Cuban government plane flown into the US she had used the judgment to seize the property and having it sold to cover some of her judgment.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Comparing what we are discussing with rape...is so far beyond the pale...

I don't think so.

Obviously.

It stuns me that you do not...and I really wish some of the people who are on your side of this question would tell you how disgusting the comparison is. But...if you want to continue to dig...dig!

Quote:

My privacy gets invaded, even though I totally disagree with it.

No idea of what you meant to say here.

Quote:

The important point is that mass spying is not benign. It is a crime.

Who the hell are you to decide it is a crime here in the United States? Did someone appoint you to a position none of us know about?

Quote:

You guys have been playing it down as unimportant, but that's like somebody who gets raped everyday and pretends to not mind it.

One, I have not been playing it down. For the most part, I have not been commenting on it at all.

My comments mostly have to do with Edward Snowden...and the charges that have been brought against him.

Two, the comparison with rape is so disgusting, even you should be able to see it by now.

Be man enough to acknowledge that that part of your argument IS disgusting and inappropriate...and stay away from it after that.

Quote:

You are just using Vaseline and carrying on because there's nothing you can do to protect your privacy.

I guess that was supposed to mean something...but it fell very short. Probably because you were trying to throw it from the hole you've dug for yourself.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxpxFgFONKzhQAewqvUlCZqtz4BVT1rr56N72wqswwJrwpvvX2

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

So true; just because they don't value their privacy doesn't mean many of us don't. We are guaranteed privacy based on our Constitution. They can ignore that all they wish, but that's supposed to be the law of the land. Their inability to understand the importance of privacy just proves how ignorant some people are. We don't want a police state, and intruding into our privacy is just the beginning.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/vomit.gif

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

It stuns me that you do not.

What stuns me is that you would belittle such a humongous crime as spying on the entire human race.

Quote:

Who the hell are you to decide it is a crime here in the United States?

My point is about the US spying on the entire human race, even where it has no jurisdiction. That is considered a crime in Europe, by Europeans like me, including those who are mandated to decide on these things.

(Nice digging you're doing there, Frank. You trying to escape the US?)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
It stuns me that you do not.

What stuns me is that you would belittle such a humongous crime as spying on the entire human race.

I do not "belittle" it...and I doubt that what we have talked about here is "spying on the entire human race."

Hyperbole will get you nowhere, Olivier.

STOP DIGGING! As a friend, I am telling you: STOP DIGGING.

Quote:

Quote:
Who the hell are you to decide it is a crime here in the United States?

I couldn't care less is the US public is being spied upon. My point is about the US spying on the entire human race, even where it has no jurisdiction. That is considered a crime in Europe, by Europeans like me, including those who are mandated to decide on these things.

Ahhh...so you have been mandated to determine who the United States may or may not spy on.

Wow...who woulda thunk it!

Wake up, Olivier...smell the coffee.

You have not been mandated to do anything with regard to how the United States can run its intelligence operations.

But it is humorous to listen to you try to convince people that you have been.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying-with-laughter.gif

Quote:

(Nice digging you're doing there, Frank. You trying to escape the US?)

Nice try, Olivier...but no cigar.

Keep digging. It is fun to watch you do it. And it is even more fun to know that I am urging you on.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeU4vlJdHgVsK1ABeeBg0AtZiOrKvN16aUYdYa6DSZV9zpJBggxQ

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

The European Mandate...

...DON'T SPY ON ME!

Is it a flag...or a bumper sticker?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The European Mandate...

...DON'T SPY ON ME!

Is it a flag...or a bumper sticker?

I don't know how it is called in the USA, but e.g.in Germany, in France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria and certainly more countries, even in the EU, voters give a mandate to those, whom they elect in their parliaments = parliamentary mandate

So it doesn't laughable but totally correct when ...

Olivier5 wrote:

That is considered a crime in Europe, by Europeans like me, including those who are mandated to decide on these things.

Actually, a mandate is THE central idea of a representative democracy.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The European Mandate...

...DON'T SPY ON ME!

Is it a flag...or a bumper sticker?

I don't know how it is called in the USA, but e.g.in Germany, in France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria and certainly more countries, even in the EU, voters give a mandate to those, whom they elect in their parliaments = parliamentary mandate

So it doesn't laughable but totally correct when ...

Olivier5 wrote:
That is considered a crime in Europe, by Europeans like me, including those who are mandated to decide on these things.

Actually, a mandate is THE central idea of a representative democracy.

I know what a mandate is, Walter.

Often we elect presidents here in the US...who have no mandate...but who claim one nonetheless.

Mandate is in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway...does your post mean the "DON'T SPY ON ME" is a flag...or a bumper sticker?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0qaNM5IOugun2qXUrvcsSrKNkH6S8hOofrpBsWk544NOBkKq_aQ

1 Reply

I have been reading an interesting beyond my admitted scope of true understanding article and it seems a lot of this stuff as been litigated to some small degree or at least talked about with leaders of interested parties. From what I can tell, the new age technology kind of makes the old terms obsolete leaving a loophole to be gotten around. In short, it is not as cut and dried as you guys make it seem.

How To Apply International Human Rights Law to NSA Spying

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Mandate is in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway...does your post mean the "DON'T SPY ON ME" is a flag...or a bumper sticker?

Mandate isn't just a political but a legal term here.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Mandate is in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway...does your post mean the "DON'T SPY ON ME" is a flag...or a bumper sticker?

Mandate isn't just a political but a legal term here.

And of course, German politicians always follow the law to the letter, right?

Anyway, if you folk think passing laws making it illegal to spy on you...will actually stop people from spying on you...

...why not pass laws against floods and crop failures so you can get rid of those problems also?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

And of course, German politicians always follow the law to the letter, right?

Not all, no. But I wrote about "mandate" and not what German politicians do or not do.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

It would seem that Frank does not respect democracy. Might is right, to some people.

The Americans will never dismantle their spying infrastructure. Their own democracy is just too derelict, and does not protect their constitution; they spent too much money in this to dismantle it now; their population is still traumatized by 9/11; and they don't respect the rights of non-Americans...

I think Bill is right: on the long run, encryption may be the only solution.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

spiegel-online (in German only) analysed the most recent interviews and statements of members of our Federal Government.
The conclusion:
Federal Government after Snowden: governance without regarding constitutional rights losses. And if they are noticed, they are belittled, disguised, publications of them prevented. Marked with a "G" would be too positive. [We have grade between 1 and 6, the German original says, a "7" would be too positive.]

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

What do they mean by "publications of them prevented"?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Those blacked documents given to the committee. Besides that, the Federal Data Protection Office is allowed (now) only to make press releases with the allowance of the Federal Government.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I see. Seems like you could use a German Snowden. As for us, we need a dozen of them... :-)

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know