41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

Forums: Politics, Snowden, Asylum, Nsa, Snowdon
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 11:07 am
@revelette2,
The "relation" between those two.
BillRM
 
  5  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 11:50 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
In the US, it is not illegal to spy, the Patriot Act gives the authority to our government to use surveillance as a tool to catch terrorist.


Sorry but other then as an excused there is no reason to spy on the bulk of the US population to find terrorists nor can any law pass by congress override the US constitution.

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 11:52 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
In the US, it is not illegal to spy, the Patriot Act gives the authority to our government to use surveillance as a tool to catch terrorist.


Sorry but other then as an excused there is no reason to spy on the bulk of the US population to find terrorists nor can any law pass by congress override the US constitution.

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]




Who determines what is "unreasonable", Bill...YOU???

If not you...then who determines that?
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The spoof says he is considering it. Wink The truth is I don't know, if they were together, surely someone would know by now. They would look good together.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
If not you...then who determines that?
If some don't have the common sense and/or doosn't know what "has long been clearly established" - the judges will tell them. (Especially, if it's like a "scene right out of a Hollywood movie" Very Happy .)
(Quotations from the United States Court of Appeal, 11th Circuit, No. 13-14092)
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
If not you...then who determines that?
If some don't have the common sense and/or doosn't know what "has long been clearly established" - the judges will tell them. (Especially, if it's like a "scene right out of a Hollywood movie" Very Happy .)
(Quotations from the United States Court of Appeal, 11th Circuit, No. 13-14092)


You are becoming very difficult to understand, Walter, because you do not say what you mean to say. You just hint at it.

But you are correct...the courts (ultimately, the SCOTUS) will tell us what is "reasonable" or "unreasonable"...not anyone here in A2K.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:34 pm
@revelette2,
You mean that your government has allowed itself to spy on its citizen. Try and be precise. Because if you really mean "spying is not illegal", then it means that Snowden did no crime...

IN MY COUNTRY IT IS ILLEGAL FOR ANY FOREIGNER TO SPY ON US, AMERICANS INCLUDED.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:40 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You mean that your government has allowed itself to spy on its citizen. Try and be precise. Because if you really mean "spying is not illegal", then it means that Snowden did no crime...



Try to keep up, Olivier.

Edward Snowden is not charged with spying.

He is charged with stealing classified government documents and releasing them to persons unauthorized to receive them.

That has been mentioned several times in this thread...dozens of times, in fact.

A trial will determine if Snowden is guilty of the crimes for which he actually is charged...not you.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
You are becoming very difficult to understand, Walter, because you do not say what you mean to say. You just hint at it.
No, I didn't hint but named a recent judgement where it is mentioned. (And that was by the United States Court of Appeal, 11th Circuit.)
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
You are becoming very difficult to understand, Walter, because you do not say what you mean to say. You just hint at it.
No, I didn't hint but named a recent judgement where it is mentioned. (And that was by the United States Court of Appeal, 11th Circuit.)


What was mentioned...and how does whatever was mentioned possibly reflect on what is being discussed?

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 12:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Seems that the topics here change so quickly that I can't follow all.
My bad.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 01:46 pm
@revelette2,
I don't know what you were referring to I'm not a mind reader. You said spying wasn't illegal in America.

What you are saying is that you think as long as the intelligence services can claim 'it's for security,' then they can do whatever the hell they want.

You really hold those freedoms dear.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 02:31 pm
@izzythepush,
You do not have to be a mind reader, just a reader will do as I stated exactly what I referring to in a couple of posts.

We have been over this topic numerous times. It is not a question of what I think, the fact is a law was passed and repassed several times in congress giving the government the authority to use surveillance tools to track terrorist. As it stands right now, there have been judges who agreed with it and judges who disagreed with it. At some point, it may reach the supreme court and that pretty much will be the end of it one way or another.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 02:52 pm
@revelette2,
What you seem to ignore is the simple fact that congress has reined in the mass data collection that was deterined to be illegal. Nobody challenges the right of our government to track terrorists. It's about the right to privacy based on our Constitution.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 02:59 pm
Revelette,

Have you noticed that people like ci...who bad-mouth our government and the congress at every opportunity...and who claim the legislators are liars to the core...

...are the ones who post things like, "...congress has reined in the mass data collection that was deterined to be illegal."

I must say it is heartening to see such determined haters of America and the American government trusting them so completely whenever it suits the nonsense they are trying to post.

It is laughable hypocrisy.
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying-with-laughter.gif


revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 03:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The bill has yet to be passed, I hope it is passed, however, from what I can tell, many civil rights groups are unsatisfied with the watered down version which might be passed.

Finally, a chance to protect Americans from NSA
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 03:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Edward Snowden is not charged with spying.

He couldn't be, since according to Rev, spying is legal in your country... :-)
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 04:08 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Edward Snowden is not charged with spying.

He couldn't be, since according to Rev, spying is legal in your country... :-)


Snowden is not charged with spying no matter what, Olivier.

We know what the charges are. That has been thoroughly discussed here.

The "he couldn't be, since according to Rev, spying is legal in your country"...is just the sound of your shovel in the pit you are digging.

And "spying" is probably legal in every country, Olivier. Revelette explained what she was saying...and you are just determined to play games with it.

No problem. The more you dig...the funnier this thread gets.

ASIDE: Snowden is not a dummy. He is a bit misguided...and perhaps self-absorbed...but not a dummy.

He has been charged with stealing classified government documents and giving them to people not authorized to receive them.

I want to see him get a fair trial on those charges.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 04:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Snowden is not charged with spying no matter what, Olivier.

Duh... You can't charge someone for doing something that's legal. Logic, anyone?... ;-)
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2014 04:49 pm
@Olivier5,
I bet you rehash jokes long past it's prime at parties too. You know what I meant, it is not illegal for the government to spy in the US. I stated it several times. Just in case you didn't know, now you do, get over yourself already.

As for Snowden, just like rape, stealing government property is always illegal.
 

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