42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If he faces a court of law and tells the judge that what the NSA did was illegal in accordance with our Constitution, why is he afraid?

I don't get it.

Maybe he doesn't trust the US jstice system to deliver justice. You followed the Zimmerman case?
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If Snowden believed what he did was the right thing to do, he should also be brave enough to face his accusers of wrong-doing.


Snowden is obviously braver to the tenth power than the whole bunch of you Americans here on A2K put together. You are the one, CI, who is badly confused. First you're for the government crooks then you're against them, then you're back for them. That's what the propaganda has been for, to keep you dodos thinking you've got honest people running your governments.

Putting himself in the hands of the criminals is hardly the smart thing to do. That would put an end to his being able to deliver more goods on the criminals.

Quote:
That he would seek asylum in communist countries is almost laughable.
He is truly a confused young man.


Talk about confused, you're a doddering old fool. What communist countries?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:36 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
I don't think it's going to be so easy...


Piece of cake, MiT. There are hundreds of flights a day that he could go on. There's all manner of shipping. Plastic surgery, passports that can easily be made up.

Quote:
Snowden took a vow to not reveal classified US document, yet like the narcissistic personality he appears to be, he gave into the urge.


And you say you are a university professor. No way, Jose!!

No one has to respect any oath or vow given to war criminals and terrorists. He vowed to uphold the constitution, not make it easier for these criminals to rape and pillage foreign lands.

Y'all should be screaming for Obama and the gang, Bush and the gang, Bush1 and the gang, Reagan's gang, Carter and the gang, ... to be hauled up for their war crimes.

Being as you are the history buff, MiT, can you point to any US prez that wasn't the equivalent of a war criminal?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:36 pm
@Olivier5,
The Zimmerman case was tried in Florida, the south, where the people still don't believe blacks are humans.

All a white guy has to do is shoot a black kid in any circumstance, then say in court they were afraid for their life.

Who can prove any different?

How can he not trust the US justice system? He can either prove to the world that the US government acted illegally by not defending the US Constitution, or he was wrong in his revelations.

If Snowden doesn't believe in the US Constitution, why is he bothered by what the NAS does?

We need to know.
JTT
 
  -1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
As I said, you're a doddering old fool, CI.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 10:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He can either prove to the world that the US government acted illegally by not defending the US Constitution, or he was wrong in his revelations.

If Snowden doesn't believe in the US Constitution, why is he bothered by what the NAS does?

He can prove that more effectively if he remains outside of jail.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 10:38 pm
@Olivier5,
Or others can prove that:

The NSA Faces a New Threat: Religious, Gun, and Pot Groups
AP - PHILIP BUMP - JUL 16, 2013

A coalition of activist and advocacy groups have joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation in a lawsuit against the National Security Agency and FBI, alleging that the government's collection of phone metadata is a violation of their First Amendment rights. The most pervasive, technologically advanced surveillance system in the world could end up hobbled by a Los Angeles church, some gunsellers, and a few marijuana advocates. As was prophesied.

The lawsuit (which can be read in full at the bottom of this post) focuses on the First Amendment right to assembly. A post at the EFF's blog explains why the collection of metadata on phone records—collection revealed by Edward Snowden and reported last month—infringes on that right.

"People who hold controversial views – whether it's about gun ownership policies, drug legalization, or immigration – often must express views as a group in order to act and advocate effectively," said [EFF legal director Cindy] Cohn. "But fear of individual exposure when participating in political debates over high-stakes issues can dissuade people from taking part. That's why the Supreme Court ruled in 1958 that membership lists of groups have strong First Amendment protection. Telephone records, especially complete records collected over many years, are even more invasive than membership lists, since they show casual or repeated inquiries as well as full membership."

Should there be any question about the government's willingness to investigate participants in such groups, you don't have to look very far back in history to see examples. (The ACLU, in fact, has a database of such instances.) During the Iraq War, the FBI infiltrated peace groups with the goal of investigating their activities.

Which explains the motley group the EFF has assembled to join its lawsuit. In the lawsuit, each explains its advocacy activity. The First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles works for social justice. NORML works to decriminalize marijuana. The Council on American Islamic Relations does what you'd expect. The California Association of Federal Firearm Licensees represents gun manufacturers and sellers. Human Rights Watch watches human rights—including those of whistleblowers. Each of these groups has joined the suit as a plaintiff, each seeing how the collection of data could make it easier for the government to observe their activism.

[...] A chapter in the history of the government's domestic surveillance, then, could end with religious groups and Greenpeace (did we not mention Greenpeace?) and pro-marijuana groups and gun rights advocates standing outside the Supreme Court, telling assembled news crews about how the day was a victory for the protection of the First Amendment. Dibs on the movie rights.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 10:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
How can he not trust the US justice system? He can either prove to the world that the US government acted illegally by not defending the US Constitution, or he was wrong in his revelations.

If Snowden doesn't believe in the US Constitution, why is he bothered by what the NAS[sic] does?

We need to know.


You edited your post and added more doddering old fool comments, CI.

You don't believe in the US constitution. You support those that wreak havoc upon the principles of the USC.

You don't need to know anything for the very simple fact that your propaganda addled brain can't handle knowing, you terribly confused little puppy. Y'all go into deep denial, unable to discuss difficult truths.

Until you grow up, you may as well stop making a pretense that you are willing and able to discuss these issues like an adult.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 01:01 am
@cicerone imposter,
Ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with nationality. You made a false statement, and now you're trying to backtrack.

You started this thread, basically saying the US should be able to do whatever it wants, and the rest of us should just lump it.

You seem to find it very difficult to accept that those of us being spied on don't see things quite the same way.

Snowden is not a dummy, he's a very brave man who has sacrificed one hell of a lot to show the excesses of power.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 01:03 am
@RABEL222,
You could try answering my previous questions.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 01:07 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What do you expect from these two who only see the crimes of the US and Americans?


I've already pointed out certain aspects of British imperialism that I condemn, but don't let facts get in the way of your gut instincts.

It's all very simple isn't it? People only criticise America because they're anti-American. America never does anything wrong. We should all touch our forelocks and bow and scrape like good little vassals. How dare we have opinions not authorised by you.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 01:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

True, and with the help from the Supreme Court! What a country.


Well at least you can have an opinion about some of the negative aspects of your country without being labelled anti-American. A luxury you don't allow others.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 07:59 am
@JTT,
Man !! What an intelligent reply. Did you go to a university to learn such perfect language?
JPB
 
  2  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 08:05 am
O4FS!!!

Quote:
A key U.S. senator has told NBC News that the United States should consider boycotting the upcoming Winter Games if Russian President Vladimir Putin grants leaker Edward Snowden asylum — even suggesting that Putin's actions should raise the specter of the pre-World War II Berlin games hosted by Adolf Hitler's regime.
"I love the Olympics, but I hate what the Russian government is doing throughout the world," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told NBC News on Tuesday. "If they give asylum to a person who I believe has committed treason against the United States, that's taking it to a new level." Moron!
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 08:48 am
@JPB,
Very few people actually boycotted the 1936 Olympics.

Quote:
Individual Jewish athletes from a number of countries also chose to boycott the Berlin Olympics. In the United States, some Jewish athletes and Jewish organisations like the American Jewish Congress and the Jewish Labor Committee supported a boycott of the Berlin Games. Once the Amateur Athletic Union of the United States voted for participation in December 1935, however, the other countries fell in line. Forty-nine teams from around the world competed in the Berlin Games, more than in any previous Olympics.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007087

A better example would be the boycott of the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, in protest against the invasion of Afghanistan. Now there's irony for you.

What's more important is the way the American Media has tried to distract from the pretty damning revelations by attacking the messenger

Quote:
"I knew when I began reporting the [NSA] story, that the technique that the U.S. government uses -- and its media allies use -- against anybody who discloses what they're doing in the dark is to distract attention away from the contents of the revelations," Greenwald said. "[But] this weekend was probably the most extreme and obvious distortion, really a fabrication on the part of Reuters, that I’ve seen yet."

Reuters did not respond to a request for a comment.

Greenwald also took aim at MSNBC on the radio show. He quoted one of the network's former producers, Jeff Cohen, who recently charged that the network and several of its talk show hosts are protecting the Obama administration in coverage of the NSA story. Cohen is the founder of the media watchdog group FAIR.

"If you’re a loyalist of the Obama administration, as most of MSNBC is," Greenwald said, "you are desperate to distract attention away from these disclosures."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/16/glen-greenwald-media-edward-snowden-stories_n_3600016.html

This is what Greenwald had to say about press freedom before the Snowden revelations were made.

Quote:
It is now well known that the Obama justice department has prosecuted more government leakers under the 1917 Espionage Act than all prior administrations combined - in fact, double the number of all such prior prosecutions. But as last week's controversy over the DOJ's pursuit of the phone records of AP reporters illustrated, this obsessive fixation in defense of secrecy also targets, and severely damages, journalists specifically and the newsgathering process in general.

New revelations emerged yesterday in the Washington Post that are perhaps the most extreme yet when it comes to the DOJ's attacks on press freedoms. It involves the prosecution of State Department adviser Stephen Kim, a naturalized citizen from South Korea who was indicted in 2009 for allegedly telling Fox News' chief Washington correspondent, James Rosen, that US intelligence believed North Korea would respond to additional UN sanctions with more nuclear tests - something Rosen then reported. Kim did not obtain unauthorized access to classified information, nor steal documents, nor sell secrets, nor pass them to an enemy of the US. Instead, the DOJ alleges that he merely communicated this innocuous information to a journalist - something done every day in Washington - and, for that, this arms expert and long-time government employee faces more than a decade in prison for "espionage".

The focus of the Post's report yesterday is that the DOJ's surveillance of Rosen, the reporter, extended far beyond even what they did to AP reporters. The FBI tracked Rosen's movements in and out of the State Department, traced the timing of his calls, and - most amazingly - obtained a search warrant to read two days worth of his emails, as well as all of his emails with Kim. In this case, said the Post, "investigators did more than obtain telephone records of a working journalist suspected of receiving the secret material." It added that "court documents in the Kim case reveal how deeply investigators explored the private communications of a working journalist".

But what makes this revelation particularly disturbing is that the DOJ, in order to get this search warrant, insisted that not only Kim, but also Rosen - the journalist - committed serious crimes. The DOJ specifically argued that by encouraging his source to disclose classified information - something investigative journalists do every day - Rosen himself broke the law. Describing an affidavit from FBI agent Reginald Reyes filed by the DOJ, the Post reports [emphasis added]:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/20/obama-doj-james-rosen-criminality
JTT
 
  2  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 09:41 am
@JPB,
Quote:
"I love the Olympics, but I hate what the Russian government is doing throughout the world," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told NBC News on Tuesday.


Unfuckingbelievable!!! What an asshole!

See what your propaganda has wrought, y'all. If politicians from other countries said the idiotic things that your idiotic politicians say, they'd be laughed out of office.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 10:03 am
@izzythepush,
You just can't admit you're wrong. If ethnicity had no bearing, why do most countries bother with race and ethnicity?

Your opinion is in direct contradiction to what countries do with their census.

Since you are confused about the subject, here's a definition for nationality.
Quote:
Nationality Law & Legal Definition

Nationality is the legal relationship between a person and a state. The person becomes subject to the state's laws, even while not physically present in the state, in exchange for the state's protection, and other rights.

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, (INA) with some major, and many minor changes, continues to be the basic immigration law of the country. The most significant amendment to the INA was in 1965, which abolished the natural origin provisions and established a new quota system.


And on race and ethnicity.
From Wiki.
Quote:
In 1997, OMB issued a Federal Register Notice regarding revisions to the standards for the classification of federal data on race and ethnicity.[8] OMB developed race and ethnic standards in order to provide "consistent data on race and ethnicity throughout the Federal Government. The development of the data standards stem in large measure from new responsibilities to enforce civil rights laws." Among the changes, OMB issued the instruction to "mark one or more races" after noting evidence of increasing numbers of interracial children and wanting to capture the diversity in a measurable way and having received requests by people who wanted to be able to acknowledge their or their children's full ancestry rather than identifying with only one group. Prior to this decision, the Census and other government data collections asked people to report only one race.[3]
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 10:16 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
If ethnicity had no bearing, why do most countries bother with race and ethnicity?


There was this "one drop"-thing in the USA ... but worse was what happened here in Germany: about 8 millions were killed just because of "race and ethnicity". (Which actually is one of the reasons, why such isn't questioned.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 10:32 am
Meanwhile in the UK ...
Quote:
GCHQ did not break British laws in the use of the American Prism system to gather information, the Commons intelligence and security committee reported today. But the MPs also stated they would be reviewing the legislations regarding the effect of surveillance on privacy and human rights.
[..]
The ISC said in its report: "It has been alleged that GCHQ circumvented UK law by using the NSA's Prism programme to access the content of private communications. From the evidence we have seen, we have concluded that this is unfounded."

However, the Committee, chaired by former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind, added: "it is proper to consider whether the current statutory framework governing access to private communications remains adequate". It was "examining the complex interaction between the Intelligence Services Act, the Human Rights Act and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act [Ripa], and the policies and procedures that underpin them, further."
Source
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 17 Jul, 2013 10:52 am
@izzythepush,
Response from Snowden (?) to the ridiculous op-ed by some Melissa Harris-Perry of MSNBC asking him to come back to the US. If it's indeed him, he's got some sense of humour... :-)

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=edsnowdenBAD46314-0B83-ECA3-E4C5-E2CFE651516D.jpg&width=60Ed Snowden commented yesterday
• #204

Dear Melissa,

I am glad it’s you, Melissa, because these days I am only getting boring emails from foreign journalists and some concerned European governments who want to know some ridiculous details about the NSA and stuff. I was pleasantly surprised that you’re not one of those muckrakers but a truly concerned voice of reason.

I will gladly accept your invitation to return to the U.S.A. because Russia is boring, the airport’s name is unpronounceable, and I can’t wait to meet heroic reporters like you, who tirelessly scrutinize the government’s invasion of their citizens’ privacy. I also appreciate that your critical coverage will give me full protection against being persecuted by the authorities.

That’s good, because I until I read your open letter, I was not super pleased with the prospective of going to jail for letting the world know that the NSA is going a tiny bit far with its well meant attempts to incorporate Stasi-style surveillance into the digital age.

I also completely understand the dilemma you and your altruistic journalistic colleagues in the U.S. are facing: As long as I am a free man, you can’t really focus on the important stories, nor do you have the time to investigate them. As you said, you have to talk about me and about how the international inconveniences caused by my absence from the U.S. are interfering with your normal work. You have no choice. I get it, as long as I am free, journalists in the U.S. will be unable to figure out whether my leak jeopardized national security.

On the other hand, if a court were to throw me into jail for it, you would have all the evidence needed to convince yourself and the public that I singlehandedly brought down national security. That’s a true win-win.

I am also sorry that I’ve been making myself the story. I forgot how much I control the media and every journalist’s mind. That was simply inconsiderate of me. I now understand, the best would have been if I had submitted a letter of complaint to the NSA ombudsman instead of letting the whole world know. A true whistleblower blows the whistle carefully, best in a noise-insulated room, as to not disturb the peace of others. And that jerk Greenwald should have kept his knowledge to himself, too. Just because he works for Guardian doesn’t make him a journalist, does it?

Another thing I really regret is that my attempts to find a way to leave Russia forced some allies of the U.S. to interrupt the free flow of air traffic. I totally understand that my presence on an airplane would inconvenience tourism, business traffic, and the airspace I’d cross. That’s why I’m still in Russia. In fact I am concerned that if I were to accept your invitation, the allies might not get the message and would not let me go home!

So that could ultimately force me to stay in Russia, although I would have loved to join the largest prisoner community in the world. After all, you make so eloquently clear that I am such a threat to Obama and everybody else that I would never be treated like Bradley Manning. I mean, if you say that I am a celebrity and that this will protect me, I am sure the courts and prisons will bow to your judgment.

So, dear Melissa, I am truly sorry that I inconvenienced your journalistic ethics. I hope you find soon a way to talk about, you know, something else without losing any sleep over it.

Thanks again for your heartfelt concern,

Sincerely,
Your Ed

0 Replies
 
 

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