42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 01:48 pm
@Olivier5,
Do you want to know so you can pass the information on to the terroists?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 01:51 pm
@izzythepush,
How was it forced to land. Did they threaten to shoot it down. As far as I know it landed because it was requested to.
BillRM
 
  5  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 01:55 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
OK Bill, you are one of the ones who are demanding the government protect us from another 9/11 terriost act.


Sorry but I am not one who wish to give up my freedoms for the false claims that by spying on the bulk of the human race will somehow guarantee safety from terrorist threats.

In fact focusing the kind of resources needed to set up such a massive surveillance state is mostly wasted efforts.

The government had all the information to had stop the 911 attack but did not put it together before hand and fulling up tens of thousands of hard drives in Utah is not going to enable them to put together future plots ahead of time but it will enable those in power to destroy our republic and our freedoms.

Here is President Truman opinion of Hoover a far less risk to our freedoms
in his day then what is now going on in the name of anti-terrorism.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

Hoover transformed the FBI into his private secret police force; Truman stated that "we want no Gestapo or secret police. The FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him".[6]


Next there are a lot of risks everyone of us run everyday of the week that is at least a few thousands times more of a threat to us then the terrorism threat.

We have loss a few thousands people to terrorism and we are currently lossing will over thirty thousands every year on our highways.

To sum up first I do not see the massive spying is at all helpful in reducing the risk of terrorism, next I am not willing to throw away my right to live in a free society even if it could reduce that risk something that is not proven.

We are according to some studies had people now fearful of questioning openly NSA and that is not the kind of nation I care to live in.

Quote:


http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/08/26/social-media-and-the-spiral-of-silence/

We set out to study this by conducting a survey of 1,801 adults.2 It focused on one important public issue: Edward Snowden’s 2013 revelations of widespread government surveillance of Americans’ phone and email records. We selected this issue because other surveys by the Pew Research Center at the time we were fielding this poll showed that Americans were divided over whether the NSA contractor’s leaks about surveillance were justified and whether the surveillance policy itself was a good or bad idea. For instance, Pew Research found in one survey that 44% say the release of classified information harms the public interest while 49% said it serves the public interest.

The survey reported in this report sought people’s opinions about the Snowden leaks, their willingness to talk about the revelations in various in-person and online settings, and their perceptions of the views of those around them in a variety of online and off-line contexts.

This survey’s findings produced several major insights:

People were less willing to discuss the Snowden-NSA story in social media than they were in person. 86% of Americans were willing to have an in-person conversation about the surveillance program, but just 42% of Facebook and Twitter users were willing to post about it on those platforms.
Social media did not provide an alternative discussion platform for those who were not willing to discuss the Snowden-NSA story. Of the 14% of Americans unwilling to discuss the Snowden-NSA story in person with others, only 0.3% were willing to post about it on social media.
In both personal setti
RABEL222
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 01:55 pm
@izzythepush,
I do believe the stupid bitch did say something like that. So you have been reduced to quoting the more ridicules U S personages among us?
RABEL222
 
  4  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:01 pm
@BillRM,
This is something that happened 60 years ago and has now been remedied. It hasent any more to do with us than Roman history. For Christ sakes if your going to argue history at least get current.
BillRM
 
  4  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:06 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
This is something that happened 60 years ago


So human nature had change in the last sixty years so when you now give the kind of power that Hoover was given to fight the threat of communism to fight terrorism the results are likely not to be similar?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:10 pm
@BillRM,
You know that old saying (which is true) is that history repeats itself.

Yes, even 60 years ago or 600 years ago.

Are wars stupid? Of coarse, but humans engage in wars in every century - sometimes several big ones.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:19 pm
@RABEL222,
So what? It was a presidential plane. If the Bolivians had done that to you it would be war.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:20 pm
@RABEL222,
I've yet to quote you.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:25 pm
@RABEL222,
Yes of course, I am a "terroist" myself... What else could I be, since I disagree with you?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:27 pm
@Olivier5,
Do you hate England? I'm told, I hate America. Mr. Green Laughing Laughing Laughing Cool Shocked
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  4  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Are wars stupid? Of coarse, but humans engage in wars in every century - sometimes several big ones.


What I find amazing is that only one generation or so separated world war one with it ten of millions dead and far more cripple for life and a repeat performed in world war two.

How in the hell do you sell turning Europe back into a slaughterhouse after such a short period of time?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:40 pm
@BillRM,
Some people fought in both world wars, and the message is still 'not clear' to many people.

TNCFS
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 02:41 pm
What a sad bunch here in this thread.

Olivier, from France, trying to pretend he sees the United States dishonoring itself...and that he is inspired to do all can to prevent Americans from doing so. He loves us that much. (He, the "Frenchman" who hasn't got the ethical wherewithal to explain the truth of his status.)

Walter, from Germany, protesting that we spy on Germany...that allies do not spy on allies. Good luck with that.

Izzy, from the UK, talking about our self-destruction as though he wants nothing more than for the US to remain dominant.

The Canadian contingent laughing at what is happening...almost drinking champagne in celebration, while pretending to want to help us learn how a civilized nation conducts business in a world climate such as we now have.

And then the American self-haters applauding them and trying to go them one up...by showing even more contempt and scorn for our nation than they.

Pathetic.

We'll get through this for now.

Snowden will eventually return or be returned and get his fair trial. He may even beat the rap despite public acknowledgement that he did exactly what he has been charged with.

For the people, both those outside the country and those fools from within, who want so much to see us mired in sludge...who want to see even more people hold us in scorn and contempt...

...you may get your wish.

You oughtta be careful what you wish for, though.

The laws of unintended consequences may bite you all on your collective asses...in ways that may cause you to curse yourselves for your myopic considerations these days.

In the meantime, we'll just have fun here yelling at each other.

Better than watching television in my opinion.

And I can get my round of gold in early...before the Internet fun begins.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 03:29 pm
The anti-Snowden camp just can't get their act together. The only thing they can do when faced with arguments about the risks of mass spying to democracy, is insult Snowden and us, calling us haters of America and "terroists". Laughable. All this time, we have been casting pearls of wisdom before swine. Oh well...
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 03:41 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The anti-Snowden camp just can't get their act together. The only thing they can do when faced with arguments about the risks of mass spying to democracy, is insult Snowden and us, calling us haters of America and "terroists".


I am not one of the anti-Snowden crowd (I want to see him get a fair trial)...and I have never insulted him other than to say he is no "Hero"...and he is not deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize.

You ARE haters of America...many of you. Jealous haters. You Olivier, and ci...are both haters of America...or you are both nuts and stupid. Choice is yours.

I suspect you are an American born citizen who has left the US for some reason. I used to suspect you actually are a woman...but apparently I was wrong about that. But I think if we found out why you left this country, we might better understand your contempt for it.

Every indication is that ci hates this country because he and his family were interred in a detention camp during the early days of WWII. That sucked...I agree with him about that.

But it is obvious he never got over that...and until very, very recently, he took every opportunity to heap scorn and contempt on this country...the country that has given him and his family a very decent place to live a very decent life.


Quote:

Laughable. All this time, we have been casting pearls of wisdom before swine. Oh well...


Yeah, sure. WE are the swine...and those pathetic posts of yours are what you consider to be PEARLS!

That truly is laughable, Olivier.

Continue your hate campaign. I will continue to laugh at you...and reply.


Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 03:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Your crystal ball is broken.

Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 03:51 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Your crystal ball is broken.




I have no crystal ball, Olivier. I sometimes make guesses...and the things I mentioned about you, your nationality, and the condition of your "Frenchness"...are all guesses.

They may be wrong...but I will never find out from you...mostly because I doubt I would trust anything you say about the issues.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 03:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Your mind is broken too... Why would you concern oneself with pure blind guesses about things that do not affect you in any way and that you will never be able to know anything about...?

Be smart, play a sudoku grid instead.
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Thu 4 Sep, 2014 04:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:

I am just not convinced that you are saying the truth about your motivations.


Being the curious animal I am, I am puzzled as to why you're so intensely interested in Frank Apisa's motivations. What ulterior motives would he have except he's against what Snowden did.....this poster did not attack you for holding your views.....YOU attacked him! You want to turn this poster inside out until you get a satisfied answer. What seems to be your problem?! Why are you not able to just take Franks' word that he's telling the truth? You act as if you're the prosecutor, demanding answers from a somewhat reluctant poster.

Quote:
There's no reason to care for one particular case of document theft and not for the scores of other leaks that have marked the US political life since the Watergate scandal...


What do you mean? Why does someone show much interest in one case and yet seemingly indifferent to another? But what's it to you? Why are you owed an explanation?! Also how do you know what he did or did not do in similar circumstances? Frank Apisa might have been just as interested....you and I will never know, and he doesn't have to answer you.

Quote:
Did you write hundreds of letters about the Watergate scandal on how "Deep Throat" deserved a fair trial???


"Deep Throat's" name was kept hidden from the public by Woodward and Bernstein who co-authored the book "WaterGate" and did not break their agreement to keep hidden the identity of the mystery man in the WaterGate scandal. This man, "Mark Felt" *WaterGate source* broke his silence a few years ago and died September 2005.
 

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