Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

I haven't called anyone any names. MIT called snowden a name, let him defend himself.

@revelette2,

MIT is a "she". Indeed let her defend herself, you don't need to get involved.

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@revelette2,

What a mess the US has got itself into.

Truly unfortunate. It's like it's trying to turn itself into Communist China of the 1960's, or East Germany of the same era.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Why did you throw yourself into the middle of all that?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Comparing human being to rats is reminiscent of the Nazis. Those who do so should at the very least not take umbrage when being called "punks".

You are calling people "punks" who never compared any human being to rats, Olivier. You called an entire class of people punks...because they do not see Edward Snowden as a hero...someone worthy of the Nobel Peace prize.

Why don't you stop the pretense?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Here's an excellent article on "mores, laws and morality." It will be over the heads of many who still believes breaking one law is okay for society.

Number agreement mistake again, ci...from the person who considers himself to be above average in the use of the English language.

What a joke.

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@Frank Apisa,

I consider a punk anyone who is more concerned about the damage to the US international image brought by Snowden, than about the dangers to the US democracy that Snowden is trying to inform us about. Only punks would concern themselves with something as trivial as the damage to their image, when mass spying is undermining their democracy.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I consider a punk anyone who is more concerned about the damage to the US international image brought by Snowden, than about the dangers to the US democracy that Snowden is trying to inform us about. Only punks would concern themselves with something as trivial as the damage to their image, when mass spying is undermining their democracy.

Well, Olivier, like I said earlier, your opinions on these matters are not particularly worth consideration, because most of them seem to be more a result of confirmation bias than any real thinking.

As an aside: my guess is that you use the word punk a lot more on the Internet than you do in the real world where the person you are calling a punk might react in a way you could very uncomfortable.

I, by the way, have NEVER said I am "concerned about the damage to the US international image brought by Snowden'...nor have I in any way whatsoever insinuated or inferred such a sentiment.

My concerns are that Edward Snowden has been charged with stealing classified government documents and releasing them to unauthorized persons.

I feel it is my civic duty to defend Snowden's right to a fair trial...which is exactly what I have been doing with a great deal of consistency throughout this discussion.

By the way, since you brought up the subject of whom you consider to be a punk...allow me to say that I consider someone to be a punk who calls someone else a punk while in the safety of anonymity and Internet distancing.

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@revelette2,

That's what makes this issue so important; all three branches of our government approved the illegal wiretap of private communication - which is against our Constitution - the SUPREME LAW OF OUR LAND. All elected officials swore to uphold our Constitution; they all lied.

The Constitution was established to protect the citizens of this country.

That's only one step away from tyranny!

Quote:

tyr·an·ny
ˈtirənē/
noun
cruel and oppressive government or rule.
"people who survive war and escape tyranny"
synonyms: despotism, absolute power, autocracy, dictatorship, totalitarianism, Fascism; More
a nation under cruel and oppressive government.
cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

My concerns are that Edward Snowden has been charged with stealing classified government documents and releasing them to unauthorized persons.

What do you care? Did you cry as much when millions of US diplomatic cables were released by Wikileaks, or when all these emails from the University of East Anglia were hacked and published by the same Wikileaks? Or for that matter, when billions of private documents and emails are accessed illegally by the US?

Cut the crap. It's not about the legality of what Snowden did. You couldn't care less of his legal rights either. It's about the humiliation of being criticized by foreigners. That's why you mention China, Germany or Russia so often in your posts. That's why the word "traitor" is being used. It's about the damage to the US reputation.

A very vain issue to concern yourself with, frankly... Your house is burning and you complain about the guy who cried "fire!" because he humiliated you by informing the neighbors...

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

What a mess the US has got itself into.
Truly unfortunate. It's like it's trying to turn itself into Communist China of the 1960's, or East Germany of the same era.

What mess?

All we need to do is hit Snowden with a DroneStrike and everything will be fine.

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@cicerone imposter,

Revelette:

Once again ci is suggesting that HE determines if laws are broken...or if governmental actions are constitutional or not.

That power is vested in the SCOTUS (not by the Constitution, by the way)...and the SCOTUS will decide if any of the things Edward Snowden allegedly revealed...are actually UNconstitutional.

So far...not one thing revealed by Edward Snowden has been found to be unconstitutional by the SCOTUS.

So I would take ci's remarks about that with several spoonfuls of salt. He is about as adept with his legal acumen as he is with his English...if you know what I mean.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
My concerns are that Edward Snowden has been charged with stealing classified government documents and releasing them to unauthorized persons.

What do you care?

I care!

Has there been a law passed that my reasons have to pass muster with YOU???

Quote:

Did you cry as much when millions of US diplomatic cables were released by Wikileaks, or when all these emails from the University of East Anglia were hacked and published by the same Wikileaks? Or for that matter, when billions of private documents and emails are accessed illegally by the US?

What does that have to do with what we are discussing, Olivier.

You are floundering and it does not look good. Remember, I do not want people thinking I am picking on an incompetent person...so try to keep up.

Quote:

Cut the crap. It's not about the legality of what Snowden did.

It's not??? Did you decide that on your own? By what authority?

Quote:

You couldn't care less of his legal rights either.

Are you delusional?

I am almost the only person in this thread who has steadfastly championed Snowden's rights to a fair trial...and I have done so on dozens of occasions.

Quote:

It's about the humiliation of being criticized by foreigners.

You may get humiliated. I do not. And ci is not a foreigner...or at least, I do not think so.

Quote:

That's why you mention China, Germany or Russia so often in your posts. That's why the word "traitor" is being used. It's about the damage to the US reputation.

The only times I have mentioned the word "traitor" with regard to Snowden...is on those several occasions where I have said pointblank that I do not consider him a traitor any more than I consider him a hero.

So clean up your act, Olivier. You are shooting blanks...and still missing.

Quote:

A very vain issue to concern yourself with, frankly... Your house is burning and you complain about the guy who cried "fire!" because he humiliated you by informing the neighbors...

As I said...I am not the one doing that, Olivier.

Please, please...stop with the desperation. It looks terrible.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Oliver wrote

Quote:

You are digging your own democracy's grave.

Russia and China are using shovels like Snowden and his kind to dig democracys grave. And not just the U S of A's democracy. I wonder what kinds of reward he got from those foreign "democracies" to spy for them and pretend to be a patriot by releasing this so called evidence. Someday we may find out that patriot was a paid spy. Especially Russia is happy as hell to see dissention between allies as they take over parts of Europe while we fight each over trifles.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

So you guys object to being called "punks", but calling people "rats" is okay? Okay, I'll call you "rats' from now on.

Your misinterpretation of what I said is a gross distortion. I inferred Snowden had the characteristics of a rat who sneaks undercover to steal, only he took these documents to discredit the US. There are (hypocritically ingenuous) people with these characteristics.

Also, you do realize Homo Sapiens is an animal?! Homo Sapiens is the animal man. Yet you object to my calling Snowden this. Were you in such a rush to paint me as the "big bad villian?"

Let us get one thing straight. It's not that I don't want to know what is going on in my country...domestic and foreign politics are discussed all the time in my world. I have known for a long time that everything we do is under surveillance...being recorded, from the ATM, to driving a car, to standing on the street corner, to departments, shopping at the Mall, hell, everywhere we go there are cameras. By typing on the Internet much is learned about me/us as individuals, my likes, etc. That the NSA has metadata incorporating Americans phone calls in bulk and really have no desire or the time to listen in on each and every call as it would be a gargantuan. One purpose of NSA spying is that of tracking people in and out of the Middle East calling patterns etc. There is nothing ordinary Americans can do about it. NSA will continue as long as it's deemed necessary to protect America, and most of the congress is behind this, despite what they say publicly. They believe the protection of the US from terrorists is paramount. Now I understand you don't care about that, but I just thought I would throw it in.

Really, you don't have to distort things to get an audience, that I'm an ostrich with its head stuck in the ground. It truly is meaningless to me what you think of me as an individual as I doubt in my real life you and I will ever meet.

At any rate, I have to work late tonight because I must get a report out. When I logged in earlier today, I meant only to post once, possibly twice, and then skedaddle but got caught up in the moment.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

How is it so irrational to compare the two???

MLK faced the unjust laws of our land and went to jail for his beliefs. He dident sneak out of the country like a thief in the night. So trying to compare the two is is like trying to compare Washington to Benedict Arnold.

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@Moment-in-Time,

He didn't discredit the US; the US discredited itself by not following established laws called the Constitution of the United States. Also, spying on our allies is not ethical or called for. If our government doesn't trust our allies, we are alone in this world.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but all one needs to do is to read that document which guarantees its citizens the right to privacy.

Everything else is diversion, and supports our government's overstepping their legal limits.

Without Snowden, we would never know about this crime perpetrated by or government.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

MLK faced the unjust laws of our land and went to jail for his beliefs. He dident sneak out of the country like a thief in the night. So trying to compare the two is is like trying to compare Washington to .

Nonsense for any number of reasons.

Let see Arnold and his wife was acting as highly very very highly paid traitors for the benefit of a nation we was at war with.

Snowden on the other hand acted at great personal cost to himself not as an agent for a foreign power but as an agent for the American people by exposing secret misdeeds of their government.

Next MLK was in fact a victim of the American intelligence and law enforcement misdeeds of spying in his time with a letter send to him using the information gain by illegal bugging to try to get him to commit suicide.

No Snowden is a damn hero with every bit of the standing of MLK.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

He didn't discredit the US; the US discredited itself by not following established laws called the Constitution of the United States. Also, spying on our allies is not ethical or called for. If our government doesn't trust our allies, we are alone in this world.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but all one needs to do is to read that document which guarantees its citizens the right to privacy.

Everything else is diversion, and supports our government's overstepping their legal limits.

Without Snowden, we would never know about this crime perpetrated by or government.

ci cannot break away from the idea that HE is he arbiter of what is and what is not constitutional...what is a crime and what is not.

The courts do that...although he is unable to acknowledge that.

A laughable situation.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

I wonder what kinds of reward he got from those foreign "democracies" to spy for them and pretend to be a patriot by releasing this so called evidence. Someday we may find out that patriot was a paid spy. Especially Russia is happy as hell to see dissention between allies as they take over parts of Europe while we fight each over trifles.

You idea of trifles is surely not my idea of trifles with the US becoming a super surveillance state that would put Hoover to shame a man who had used his agency to blackmail Presidents and congressmen for decades.

Kind of hard to have a democracy when we know for sure that the CIA did not have a problem in spying not on our foreign enemies but on congress itself for example beside lying to them.

Does anyone think that from the President on down our elected officers are not being spy on in the same manner that Hoover did during his hay days opening them all up to being secretly blackmail as President Kennedy happen to had been over his "love" life.

2 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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