Snowdon is a dummy

@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

Just because I along with others believe Snowden to be a traitor animal and you think he is a super-duper hero deserving of the Nobel Prize, is no reason to stoop to barbarian levels because I fervently disagree with your assessment.

If you can call Snowden an "animal" or a "rat", you should have no problem with me calling you guys "punks". At least, punks are human beings... Be happy that I won't stoop to your level and call you a rat.

Quote:

I'm curious as to how I and others are traitors to American values, its democracy.

Simple: the constitution protects the people's privacy. If you fail to defend that constitutional obligation and instead welcome mass spying, which has the potential of turning the US into a dictatorship, then you are a traitor to your own democracy.

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@Moment-in-Time,

MiT...by now you should realize that trying to be reasonable with people like ci and Olivier is almost certain to meet with failure.

They have decided that America is beneath contempt...and that anyone who maligns it has to be acting in some sort of greater world good.

Our country has plenty wrong with it...it kinda goes with the territory. Every country that has been the predominant power on the planet has run into the kinds of problems with which our country is dealing. And the "most powerful countries" have always met with the fear, jealousy and hatred that now is coming the way of our nation.

We could be doing better...and many of us are willing to agitate for a correction of course.

But people like ci and Olivier are merely venting their bile. They would rather just pile on...which is what they are doing.

There is no reasoning with them...and they will continue to hurl as much dirt our way as they can.

Keep up the good work of calling their shenanigans to their attention.

They need the help!

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@revelette2,

Quote:

Snowden is no Martin Luther King. Please be rational.

How is it so irrational to compare the two???

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@Frank Apisa,

The problem with liars is that they keep contradicting themselves... Like, if my opinions are not worth any attention, you should ignore my posts rather than respond to EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The problem with liers is that they keep contradicting themselves... Like, if my opinions are not worth any attention, you should ignore my posts rather than respond to EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM...

Your OPINIONS are totally worthless to me, Olivier.

Your POSTS are a joy. I love 'em...and will continue to read each and every one from beginning to end...and to respond to them.

As I said, however, that does not detract from the fact that I think your OPINIONS are worthless.

Try to get someone to 'splain that to you...I understand you are having trouble trying to figure it out on your own.

Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF 'EM, Olivier!

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@Frank Apisa,

Keep lying.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

People who puke on the smartest and most courageous among them are punks. Snowden is more of a patriot than any of you punks, and more of a patriot than anyone in the US administration either. You guys are digging the US's grave. That's not patriotic in my book, it's just insane.

Did you ever just stop and think this is your distinctive GRAVE OPINION along with a few other extremists, those who achingly despise America for whatever reason?! That the US is DOOMED and Americans are "DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVES?!" What an ominous outlook for America. GHEEZ! I simply must adjust my Last Will and Testament since according to you, I have so little time left!

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Keep lying.

No lying going on.

Watch me. I am going to read and respond to every post you make here.

You'll see.

And I think your opinions on America and on Edward Snowden are absolutely worthless. You are entitled to as many worthless opinions as you want, though.

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Just dropping by -

I could have sworn I posted the link to the Wired Snowden interview of August 22nd, but I guess I was dreaming.
Anyway, that was a breath of fresh air - to me.
I try not to get into this Snowden thread since I have given up on the ceaseless repetitions of several posters who think americans who appreciate Snowden for his exposure of the NSA malfeasance toward americans' privacy, as nice a word as I can come up with -- and listen about his motives -- are haters of our own country. I don't understand saying the same thing 65 or 232 or 500 times..

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

How is it so irrational to compare the two???

Alright, let us not use "irrational" but logical or practical. Martin Luther King was NOT narcissistic; he was one who tried to follow in the footsteps of Ghandi. Edward Snowden appears, at least in my opinion, as one with an excessive interest in himself...one of extreme selfishness, seeking to be on top of the world. This unscrupulous, unworthy sneak seemingly wanted to make a name for himself....and he did just that.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Yes, it is my opinion that you are digging your democracy's grave. And this opinion of mine is supported by facts (e.g. the contradiction between mass spying and the US constitution) and by historical precedents. Sorry that you can't understand that. I also feel sorry that you prefer to call "rats" those very people who CAN understand that risk, and are doing something about it.

You are just calling "rats" people who are risking their lives to save the US democracy. Oh well...

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@Moment-in-Time,

Snowden is much less interested in himself than you are interested in him. That's because all you want to do is character assassination... this obsession of yours with his alleged narcissism is akin to shooting the messenger.

1 Reply

Would anyone like to add the thoughts of Oliver North here?

1 Reply

@blatham,

No, no. I much prefer Olivier's (voice of sanity)

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Just dropping by -

I could have sworn I posted the link to the Wired Snowden interview of August 22nd, but I guess I was dreaming.
Anyway, that was a breath of fresh air - to me.
I try not to get into this Snowden thread since I have given up on the ceaseless repetitions of several posters who think americans who appreciate Snowden for his exposure of the NSA malfeasance toward americans' privacy, as nice a word as I can come up with -- and listen about his motives -- are haters of our own country. I don't understand saying the same thing 65 or 232 or 500 times..

Well...you could have just stayed away.

Snowden is a guy who stole classified documents and released them to the public. He is now hiding out in Russia...that stellar bastion of rights of privacy and good governmental government...after previously hiding out in China...another stellar bastion of rights of privacy and good governmental government.

I think he deserves a chance to come back to the United States...and get a fair trial.

Don't you?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Yes, it is my opinion that you are digging your democracy's grave. And this opinion of mine is supported by facts (e.g. the contradiction between mass spying and the US constitution) and by historical precedents. Sorry that you can't understand that. I also feel sorry that you prefer to call "rats" those very people who CAN understand that risk, and are doing something about it.

You are just calling "rats" people who are risking their lives to save the US democracy. Oh well...

Oh, it is so interesting (and laughable) to see you so concerned about the well-being of the United States, Olivier.

Snowden wants greater personal freedom...and a government that is less intrusive. He is now residing in Russia.

Great move on his part.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

No, no. I much prefer Olivier's (voice of sanity)

Olivier is not voicing sanity with his comments about digging the grave of America.

He is just engaging in wishful thinking on his part!

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Stimulated by something peripherally connected to all this that I was reading, I was reminded of a very bright observation made by Chomsky after the Arms to Iran revelations. He noted how Casey had gone covert, lied to congress, etc because of what had changed in America in the 60s. Previously, the CIA didn't have keep the dirty or criminal portions of their operations very secret because Americans just trusted them and weren't paying attention. But with the 60s and the questioning of prior assumptions (re America's footprint in the world along with much else) the CIA and other such operations had to hide the nasty stuff and lie about it - even to other branches of government.

The sorts of excuses I read above for what America has recently been getting up to really are pretty close to the sorts of claims made by Ollie North then and later. Must be odd company to find oneself in.

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@ossobuco,

Thanks :-))

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Snowdon is a dummy

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